StillSmart

Re: Questioning the conventions

2012-05-07T19:33:05+00:00

Going on from CC's comments about clearing washes ( or not !) rolled in from last game of season last night (somewhat tired and emotional) decided to siphon wash for a run this morning, thought I'd stirred a bit of orrible classic carbon wash up but so what !
Good run this morn but lord when I emptied the boiler looked like the Amoco Cadiz/Torry Canyon had passed by, but old T500 coped
Still.... strip down and clean seemed a good idea >:D

Statistics: Posted by Admiral Toad — Mon May 07, 2012 7:33 pm

Re: Questioning the conventions

2012-04-20T13:42:56+00:00

I'm not against using clearing agents, I'm just raising it as a discussion point. Sparky seems very reasonably priced, and I would probably use it if my process was different.

I have 3 large fermenters, and a fourth being used as a dunder pit. 2 normally have neutral wash in it and the third has rum or something else.
I don't have any spare to rack into, and I want to save the yeast so I can't use clearing agents, I would leave to clear for 2-3weeks so was on about a monthly cycle.

I'm also not against using turbos - I ran a alcotec 48 last month for comparison and playing with my new bubble plate. 5.5kg in 25ltr, stripped and ran, result was as neutral as my usual wash.

but here is the thing - the turbo cost me nearly £3. I use 15g of K1V-1116 to make a big starter, from this I start 100Lts of wash, from the yeast in the bottom of those fermenters I start another 90, then another. So I get about 280lts of 10% wash from £3.75 of yeast. I then have so much neutral I'll do other things like rum or terrible terrible whisky which I find fun, but I'm rubbish at it. Most of the neutral ends up as gin.

Statistics: Posted by Capt-Cudellez — Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:42 pm

Re: Questioning the conventions

2012-04-20T13:26:05+00:00

See we're all kindred spirits and I do mean spirits !!! >:D

Statistics: Posted by Admiral Toad — Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:26 pm

Re: Questioning the conventions

2012-04-20T13:22:05+00:00

I think we all agree CC I always wash boiler carefully too dont worry
I think youre right about rapid ferments and higher abv keeping nasties away but sterilisers not that dear so a little wash with it in the fermenters cant harm.
Certainly Sparky saves a lot too not as fast but so what ! just a case of a bit of planning

Statistics: Posted by Admiral Toad — Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:22 pm

Re: Questioning the conventions

2012-04-20T13:19:13+00:00

Ah drat, I was hoping for a fight, or at least some raised eybrows. Where's the fun in us all agreeing

Statistics: Posted by Capt-Cudellez — Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:19 pm

Re: Questioning the conventions

2012-04-20T12:55:19+00:00

Like Mr C says - it's a picture of the distiller's natural learning curve.

I'm entering Stage 4

Ain't life grand!

AM

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: Questioning the conventions

2012-04-20T12:51:57+00:00

I take time to clear my wash simply because I know that suspended solids increase the risk of foaming and can solids burn on your heating element which in a pot still may affect flavour.

I'm not sure of these things so I just err on the side of caution without being paranoid. Clearing my wash costs me very little with Sparky, I don't have to use conditioner and I've just got used to doing it that way.

But CC's right these are things carried over from wine and beer making but I always consider that's essentially what I'm doing - making a beer or wine without any care for how it tastes - then extracting the ethanol and drinking it - I like that part.

Having said that, I've been using an Airstill up to now and it's relatively easy to have an ultra clean routine and I've loads of time on my hands. I'm hoping to change over to my proper pot still next week and things may be different in light of practical experience.

AM

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:51 pm

Re: Questioning the conventions

2012-04-20T12:51:07+00:00

I tend to be fairly fanatical with the sterilising fluid and I always airlock (but's that just a nice easy/lazy way so I can easily see how the ferment is progressing) but I don't use any clearing agents any more. That kind of stopped after I stopped using turbo yeasts.

With this latest dunder/molasses wash there is no way you could tell how clear the wash is. It's as black as night (and smells fantastic)

I always use my ss reflux in pot mode to strip washes - mainly to save me from having to methodically clean the column!

I was thinking about the stages on my journey so far.

Stage one
Get a consumer product, follow all the instructions to the letter, using turbos and filtering

Stage two
Start to question the instructions - stop using turbos. Find 'weird' recipes on the web. Start to realise quality is the opposite of quantity.

Stage three
Learn about cuts, stop filtering, start to experiment - tweaking recipes.

Stage four
Create recipes - use what you have lying around rather than buying stuff...

Statistics: Posted by MrCat — Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:51 pm

Re: Questioning the conventions

2012-04-20T12:04:15+00:00

Airstill can 'burp' if your wash is too cloudy, it's down to the way that it's designed - guess in a column this would be more of a surge but it's less of an issue as it isn't spraying boiling wash around the kitchen!

I agree with the general theory though, if you're making a neutral then the idea is to remove the taste anyway, so providing you can distill without causing too much trouble due to cloudiness, flavour should be fairly irrelevant. No experience of making anything else really so can't comment there.

Statistics: Posted by Jimmy — Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:04 pm

Re: Questioning the conventions

2012-04-20T11:56:42+00:00

Actually AT, my boiler does get a good clean after every spirit run (unless I'm doing one the same on the back of it) - It's one thing I do - do.

As I run different washes I don't want my neutral tasting rummy or being tainted with something strong tasting like rye. If you only ran one product, like a whisky distillery then probably not too much of a concern.

As for infections - I think our strong ferments with lots of yeast - or a big starter, stop anything getting hold. When I do a wash that's got grain in it and need boiled, I'll chill the wort with a coil of copper running water through it to get it to pitching temp ASAP - as I believe a long wait with hot sugary wort is when nasties can get hold. Not really a problem if doing sugar wash, as you mix it up to pitching temp, and pitch right away.

Statistics: Posted by Capt-Cudellez — Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:56 am

Re: Questioning the conventions

2012-04-20T11:43:00+00:00

Laziest distiller my arse
I think you're right mate when you visit a proper distillery as I'm sure youve done many like me the washbacks ie fermenters have loose fitting lids often open to the air with pigeons flying around
They certainly don't clear their washes. straight into the charge tank then the low wines still leaving a fair bit of dead yeast behind but must be very cloudy
They do pre sure wash and clean the wash backs but I don't think the stills get a lot of attention
Must ask when I vist my next one
I guess as long as we avoid infection at the early fermenting stage should be fine

Statistics: Posted by Admiral Toad — Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:43 am

Questioning the conventions

2012-04-20T10:32:05+00:00

I’ve seen a lot of posts recently about various clearing agents and the likes and this has got me thinking. We inherit a lot of our brewing techniques from the beer and wine guys, but we are distillers and I sometimes wonder if we are making it hard on ourselves.

Sanitation – I rinse my fermenters out with the hot water and the shower head – If I’ve had something like molasses in there, I might even push the boat out and use some fairy liquid to get the black stuff out, I am incredibly lax in this area.

Air locks – my ferments are normally done in a week, maybe two if I add too much backset screwing the PH, or it’s a bit cooler than normal. I haven’t used an airlock for 12 months now, just a loosely place lid – sometimes with a tea towel to keep any insects out. I have found hair, fluff, and “other” stuff in the wash, its all getting boiled not going in a bottle – no harm, no foul.

Despite the above I have not had any infections – I think I had one once when I was brewing in the house, and I think it was because of the trial jar I was using – now I just leave a hydrometer in each wash and don’t mess with it.

Clearing – I’m normally reusing my yeast so I don’t use any clearing agents, I did until recently let my neutral washes get really clear naturally, just with cool temps and time. Whisky and Rum I will run 1-3 days after degassing to no ill effect, so I tried running a neutral wash the same way, it was far from clear. The strip tasted about the same, and the final product was as good, I doubt I’ll be waiting longer from now on.

Why are we clearing washes? To me this seems like something we have inherited from the wine makers but isn’t really needed in our hobby, and is a money spinner for the HBS to keep selling this stuff. Have any of the guys running air stills tried it both ways? Maybe it does help if trying to make a neutral product in a pot still (which is a tough gig anyway), but us with columns I doubt it makes much difference, just long enough to let most of the yeast sink to the bottom seems to do the trick.

Over the last 12 months I feel I have been playing ker-plunk with my technique, removing one thing at a time to see what breaks – and you know what, nothing has. I hope others will pipe up with their experiences, and views on this, I’m sure you’ll have some.

CC - the laziest distiller on the block.

Statistics: Posted by Capt-Cudellez — Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:32 am