StillSmart

Re: Half price/Better? Turbo's

2013-11-15T15:15:59+00:00

Defo agree about fast fermentations being a quality killer.

I like my Vodka Star washes to take about 2 weeks to ferment out with another 2 weeks (or more) for clearing.

Coupled with a real slow run in the T500 and it's good enough for me and mine without filtering.

Works out about £1.42 per litre of 45%, no heads recycled.

Statistics: Posted by John51 — Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: Half price/Better? Turbo's

2013-11-15T09:58:13+00:00

I've sent ED a PM on the post below.

For general information, it has been my direct experience that the things that generally cause off tastes and smells in a wash and that subsequently affect the quality of the end product are, fast, forced fermentation and high alcohol level in the wash. Both of these cause yeast stress which in turn leads to bi-products that are responsible for the nasty sour taste in this type of wash.

So-called Turbo Yeast packs are promoted as producing fast results and high alcohol levels up to 23% the very conditions that cause taste and smell problems in a wash. This promise is very attractive to new entrants - me included at one time, we all fall for it the beginning. I used turbos until I found out why you really shouldn't use them as directed.

The manufacturers of Alcotec 48 don't specify on the pack that Activated Carbon should be used in that product. However, if that yeast pack is used as intended, in a 25lt wash, it creates a fast, forced fermentation, producing higher than normal alcohol levels, the very conditions known to create nasty bi-products and, as such, does need activated carbon to remove them. These compounds are detectable in the taste difference between a turbo wash and a standard wash. (Drinking turbo wash is a definite no-no but tasting on your finger is quite safe)

That said, there is nothing to stop anyone ignoring that best practice and it's probably unlikely that any spirit produced, without treatment with activated carbon in the wash, will kill you but I personally wouldn't drink it!

I'm intrigued with Cap't C's experiments using lower sugar content, 10kg in 50lt, and halving the turbo yeast (or rather using 1pack for double the liquid volume) both of which effectively turn a turbo into a non-turbo by removing the two conditions that were the plague of turbo wash products. The logic behind this experiment is clearly born of the Captain's healthy experience and that's the sort of research that makes a positive contribution to our knowledge base.

The best Whisky is made from distiller's beer fermented to around 5-7%ABV while the best neutral is made from non flavoured wash fermented to around 11-12%ABV. The trick is to create consistency. Cap't C's experiment may well nail down a consistent method to reach the neutral target.

AM

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:58 am

Re: Half price/Better? Turbo's

2013-11-15T05:24:40+00:00

"Number 2. If you're using Alcotec 48 without liquid carbon and not filtering the second run distillate then you're a braver man than me....that stuff will rot your gut.

But, hey! Everyone to their own "

Nowhere in alcotecs literature is liquid carbon advocated with alcotech 48,nor is it supplied.
Look at the captains recent trials of it against another wash.
Indeed,everyone to their own.
But please don't try and diss me on this.
There are more ways than one to skin a rat,if you are happy with yours,good for you.
Shall we get back to this being a friendly site,where people post results and ask questions,and try to help newbies,but nobody knows everything?
Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:24 am

Re: Half price/Better? Turbo's

2013-11-15T00:19:27+00:00

Easydrinker wrote:
Aidan, you've obviously never used alcotec 48,no carbon involved.......
.........I understand you are anti-turbo.

Backup there a little!

I've been around here a long time and I have a policy to never post anything without knowing what I'm talking about unless I'm asking a question

So, number 1. you're wrong, I have used Alcotec 48, on several occasions and while it is possible to make an almost passable spirit with it I stopped using it for good reasons, i.e. my taste buds could taste nasty stuff in it, even after carbon filtering.

While it's true some people can get used to anything I won't. That's the reason why serious distillers here make our own spirits, so we don't have to drink stuff that tastes no better than crappy commercial spirits.

Number 2. If you're using Alcotec 48 without liquid carbon and not filtering the second run distillate then you're a braver man than me....that stuff will rot your gut.

But, hey! Everyone to their own

AM

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:19 am

Re: Half price/Better? Turbo's

2013-11-14T22:52:39+00:00

Aidan, you've obviously never used alcotec 48,no carbon involved,unless you choose to filter.
I understand you are anti-turbo.
My current cost of 40% in a 1 litre bottle,using alcotec,including finings is £1.05.
And couldn't be a simpler,or more predictable wash.
Having said that,I am constantly playing with various yeasts and washes,and having great fun.
I don't know everything,but one day hope to know lots of stuff.
Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:52 pm

Re: Half price/Better? Turbo's

2013-11-14T21:06:27+00:00

I can never understand this discussion. It is generally accepted that turbos, while not a bad thing, can produce off tastes and have the awful liquid carbon to be dealt with but some people still refer to them as "good value".

I gave up turbos and use a very simple wash with bakers yeast, lentils & sugar and my current cost per litre of finished spirits, in a bottle, ready to drink, is €1 or about GBP£0.82

At that cost I couldn't give a rats about "good value" I'd rather have clean and simple anyday

AM

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:06 pm

Re: Half price/Better? Turbo's

2013-11-14T08:20:35+00:00

Easydrinker wrote:
Being mindful of why this website was created (even though times change and some of us move onward and [possibly] upward) I'm posting this here,as High ABV washes are really in the provence of Smart Stills , to compensate for the work involved in producing distillate.
Not all of us are averse to using turbos and posts like this one have appeared on other websites,I just haven't seen one here; only an allusion regarding making milder tasting/smelling washes using turbos,with less carry over to distillate.
For any who aren't aware,let me share:
I made a wash using only half a pack of Alcotec 24 yeast.I cleared it using half of a Turbo clear pack (half of each side).
This wash usually takes me six days from yeast in, to sparkling clear,this time it took eight.
I can live with that.
The ferment smell was much nicer.The ABV as usual.
I am just finishing the stripping runs,difference in distillate or not,I think it worth sticking with for now.

I am now into another wash with the remaining half pack of yeast,smelling good,fizzing well.
BTW,I was shopping yesterday and noticed Aldi have reduced the price of sugar to 75p.
Every little helps and all that.

Robert.

Hi.
I've been looking at these splitting ideas.
Did you do 2 lots of 6kg made up to 25l?
If so then 50l of wash from one pack is incredible
And really makes those turbos cost effective!

Statistics: Posted by Corps012588 — Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:20 am

Re: Half price/Better? Turbo's

2013-07-12T05:06:59+00:00

I read on other forums where Turbo’s are blamed for everything that is bad in the world and at times I get a little annoyed when it obvious that the person making the comment has never tried the product that they are commenting on.

I have tried a couple of yeasts with combined nutrients (AKA turbos) and did not have a lot of success and moved on. However I now believe that in my case that I was probably to blame. Due to the amount of insulation on my fermenter and the amount of heat given off by the yeast the temperature was 10 degrees over the recommended maximum for the total duration of the ferment. It is very easy to generalise and where there are so many variables it is easy to put the blame in the wrong court.

If you are having success and are pleased with the results then you do right in letting everybody know.

As I said, I moved on and am pleased with the results but like you, continually look to make savings on the ingredients, it is all part of the fun. I buy most of my supplies including nutrients from the local supermarkets when I do the weekly shop, Sugar, Allbran, Weetabix, Cornflakes all end up in the trolley, the actual selection is usually based on the offer that is on on the day. As well as sugar Aldi currently have some Kellogs corflakes on offer, hence my current brew.

Keep going with what you know works for you, but when you have a stock built up try a few experiments with alternatives. It will give you something to compare, you never know you may actually prefer something else, you just don’t know it yet.

Toodlepip

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:06 am

Half price/Better? Turbo's

2013-07-11T23:05:17+00:00

Being mindful of why this website was created (even though times change and some of us move onward and [possibly] upward) I'm posting this here,as High ABV washes are really in the provence of Smart Stills , to compensate for the work involved in producing distillate.
Not all of us are averse to using turbos and posts like this one have appeared on other websites,I just haven't seen one here; only an allusion regarding making milder tasting/smelling washes using turbos,with less carry over to distillate.
For any who aren't aware,let me share:
I made a wash using only half a pack of Alcotec 24 yeast.I cleared it using half of a Turbo clear pack (half of each side).
This wash usually takes me six days from yeast in, to sparkling clear,this time it took eight.
I can live with that.
The ferment smell was much nicer.The ABV as usual.
I am just finishing the stripping runs,difference in distillate or not,I think it worth sticking with for now.
I am now into another wash with the remaining half pack of yeast,smelling good,fizzing well.
BTW,I was shopping yesterday and noticed Aldi have reduced the price of sugar to 75p.
Every little helps and all that.

Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:05 pm