StillSmart

Re: Allbran and Weetabix - courtesy of bradsgonetreking

2013-06-05T21:21:19+00:00

I am not a whiskey connoisseur, my experience with whisky is very limited indeed and in the past I have always drank blended whiskies. I have never heard of many of the whiskey’s that are mentioned on these threads let alone tasted them. My stomach does not allow me to drink strong (40%) spirits so I tend to dilute everything to 5 or 10% with Coke or some such fizzy drink, I make no apologies for that, it is the way I am and what I enjoy.

Therefore - I am not trying to emulate a particular type or style of drink, just make one that I will enjoy without too much hassle.

My first attempt at the AB&WB was “confused” by my learning curve, subsequent runs have been relatively straightforward and I have developed a taste for the drink. I do not know if I a getting better at making it or I am just getting used to it.

My current production is limited by my fermentation capacity – I have one 25 litre fermenter and want to keep it that way, otherwise I would be swamped with more booze than I would know what to do with. I strip three batches and then one big spirit run, with AB&WB all that takes 3 to 4 weeks and does not lend itself to experimentation, I do not want 8 or 9 bottles of failure.

I am currently modifying my still in the hope that I will be able to do spirit runs on each 25 litre brew and give me the opportunity of trying some more variations with a more reasonable risk factor and yes DME/LME is on my list of things to try. But there again, it is a very long list.

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:21 pm

Re: Allbran and Weetabix - courtesy of bradsgonetreking

2013-06-05T18:05:00+00:00

Brian,

I have read both your account of cereal fermentation and production and Franks FSW account of peated barley (I think) fermentation and production.

Frank obviously aimed at a product emulating a Peated Islay Styled Malt and as such was targeting a specific end product. You were learning to drive your still and experimenting. (sweaty sock's 'n all)

Personally I'm not a fan of Peaty Whisky (sorry Frank). I am interested to know how you would describe the style of your end product.

Do you think adding a measure of DME / LME would be of any benefit to flavour.

Cheers

Statistics: Posted by amaark — Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:05 pm

Re: Allbran and Weetabix - courtesy of bradsgonetreking

2013-04-30T00:12:48+00:00

Hi all

I had a sudden flash of inspiration while reading some of these posts where the problems of large sediment layers were discussed while using cereals.

Ive done all grain beer brewing using the brew in a bag method (BIAB). I wonder if it would be feasible to ferment in a bag ??

Statistics: Posted by Ian3266 — Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:12 am

Re: Allbran and Weetabix - courtesy of bradsgonetreking

2013-04-28T08:15:21+00:00

It’s nine months since my first ever wash and run. Things have developed slowly I have my fermentation sorted to give reliable, repeatable results, I am learning to drive the still to give smoother, cleaner tasting product. Though I must confess that, at times, I still struggle with making the cuts but now rather than trying to get the most out of my cuts I am ruthless and discard anything that I am not 100% sure about.

I had a last bottle of my first batch which had sat in the back of the cupboard since it was made, I tried some a few weeks ago and thoughly enjoyed it. I decided to make some more.

For some reason I messed up with the sugar and used 6kG for each of the washes, the bakers yeast fermented it all.

I did two washes and one spirit run, the cuts this time went well, I found one cut in the middle that was awesome, I put this to one side intending to age it– no willpower, its all gone now.

Added Oak chips for a month then filtered and bottled seven bottles of booze that have absolutely no resemblance to my first batch whatsoever, these are so tasty and smooth, now I am wondering what it will be like in 12 months time.

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:15 am

Re: Allbran and Weetabix - courtesy of bradsgonetreking

2012-07-14T14:41:11+00:00

Just back from my holidays and getting caught up.

YHB wrote:
Wash/strip number two, same recipe but this time I treated the run as a spirit run and collected cuts – every 400ml – so that I could experience the difference of foreshots / heads / hearts / tails or so I thought. I must be missing something - during the run they all tasted the same

How fast were you running? If it is all a bit nondescript then there may be a lot of smearing going on. That said it is trickier with a single run, I usually strip everything (with rum I add in a little wash to the low wines for the spirit run)

YHB wrote:
A few days later I was trying to work out what I was doing wrong, picked up the bottle of “hearts” that I had kept and smelled it – what a difference a few days made, it actually smelled reasonable.

I usually leave it 2 days before doing the cut, something happens in this time that makes the whole thing much easier.

Also someone once said - the easiest way to make better booze, is to make more of it - age it in bulk - by the time you have drank your first bottle the rest will be better already.
This does seem to work - I've had some mediocre stuff that 6,9,12 months later is transformed (I've also had stuff that no amount of time will put right)
I even believe that white spirits like vodka or white rum benefit from being stored a while in glass with a little head space - swap the air out now and again and after a month or two its much smoother, and the flavour is improved.

Statistics: Posted by Capt-Cudellez — Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:41 pm

Re: Allbran and Weetabix - courtesy of bradsgonetreking

2012-07-14T06:17:11+00:00

I have done my three brews and three strips of All-Bran and Wheetabix and I have learnt a lot.

As this was my very first attempt at distilling I did not know what to expect and I had nothing to judge it by. After I had stripped the first wash I could not resist the urge to taste it, that was a big mistake - I thought that I had distilled my socks – it was f****g awful.

OK, not to be discouraged and trying to be positive, I convinced myself that the strip was full of all these heads and tails that I had been reading about and that was what I had tasted.

Wash/strip number two, same recipe but this time I treated the run as a spirit run and collected cuts – every 400ml – so that I could experience the difference of foreshots / heads / hearts / tails or so I thought. I must be missing something - during the run they all tasted the same, and smelling them was a bit like snorting “Draino” I ended up with a numb nose that refused to smell anything., just as I was about to give up I checked under my shoe to see if I had stepped in something nasty, then realized the smell was coming from the still, checked the thermometer 202 deg F – Tails, OK I have now learnt what tails smell like.

From this second run, I kept one 400ml bottle from somewhere near the middle but it still was reminiscent of a pair of socks that had been left stuffed in my trainers for a couple of weeks, feeling quite depressed I dumped all the rest into a Demijohn.

A few days later I was trying to work out what I was doing wrong, picked up the bottle of “hearts” that I had kept and smelled it – what a difference a few days made, it actually smelled reasonable. I diluted some with coke and tasted it, it was not like anything I had drunk before, but it was not all that bad. Things had suddenly started to look up.

OK what to do now? I had read that “Oaking” improves things, so I tipped half of my little sample onto some of my M&S Oak Chips. Slowly things got better, the smell improved and after 7 days I tried some – I think I liked it. I say think because it may be me just be getting used to it, or the fact that I made it may have influenced my judgement or that my taste buds had been completely burnt out during the first tasting..

In any event I decided to carry on with the production – I put the next batch on, it was fermented and stripped within 7 days. I put the three strips together for a spirit run with the still in Pot Mode. - 18 x 400ml cuts from 80%ABV to 40%

Once again the tails were identifiable but I struggled with the heads, finally deciding to cut 5 and save them for a possible future spirit run.

I ended up with 4 litres of hearts at 75%, which I diluted it with 0.5 litres of water to make 65% ABV and put in 300grams of M&S Oak Smoking Chips, which should give me around 10 or 12 bottles at drinking strength in a week or two.

I have sipped my way through the sample that I cut from the second batch, and I can say that I did enjoy it. All I hope is that the production run mellows and changes character in the same way as the trial batch did, if it does I will be one very happy chappy, and the samples that I am tasting now, tell me I will be.

Making this wash with relatively cheap ingredients and going through the mechanics of three ferments, three stripping runs and one spirit run. I feel a lot more confident than I did a month ago about trying a few generations of rum, the first of which is bubbling away nicely.

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:17 am

Re: Allbran and Weetabix - courtesy of bradsgonetreking

2012-06-23T16:25:46+00:00

Hi Brian as regards to sugar wash sweetness this can be reduced if you invert the sugar with citric acid when desolving your sugar with boiling water add the citric at this point and leave to stand for 20 mins before continuing with your recipe
Cheers Bill

Statistics: Posted by billmcc — Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:25 pm

Re: Allbran and Weetabix - courtesy of bradsgonetreking

2012-06-23T16:20:16+00:00

YHB wrote:
You will have to be gentle with me - I dont understand "Raw Sugar" I followed a few threads where people were trying to find the cheapest sugar, no-one mentioned different types only talked about cost, I have searched all the supermarket websites and when I look for "raw sugar" nothing is found, what should I be using?

Similary "Keep the sugar low" I thought all the sugar was used up during fermentation so where does the sweetness come from? is 1kg/5 litre low?

By raw sugar I meant unrefined sugar - Guess I've been spending too much time on the US forums I used billingtons unrefined - it was about £1.50/kg so a fair bit more than the refined stuff. I do think it tastes better in a flavoured washes, but it is a subtle difference so its a personal choice.
1kg/5l is about right - I was putting in 5kg in a 27l wash.

Statistics: Posted by Capt-Cudellez — Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:20 pm

Re: Allbran and Weetabix - courtesy of bradsgonetreking

2012-06-23T15:29:44+00:00

The second batch has fermentd down to 0.995 (11%) in 5 days, ready to put the next batch on and looking for improvements.

Capt-Cudellez wrote:
if you kept the sugar low and used raw sugar it didn't have that sugar wash sweetness to it.

You will have to be gentle with me - I dont understand "Raw Sugar" I followed a few threads where people were trying to find the cheapest sugar, no-one mentioned different types only talked about cost, I have searched all the supermarket websites and when I look for "raw sugar" nothing is found, what should I be using?

Similary "Keep the sugar low" I thought all the sugar was used up during fermentation so where does the sweetness come from? is 1kg/5 litre low?

All advice appreciated

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:29 pm

Re: Allbran and Weetabix - courtesy of bradsgonetreking

2012-06-21T07:26:49+00:00

This is one of the things I love about this hobby - the early stages are very much about science, process and method... but once you get to being half decent, it's all about art!

Statistics: Posted by Jimmy — Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:26 am

Re: Allbran and Weetabix - courtesy of bradsgonetreking

2012-06-21T05:31:53+00:00

Thanks everybody for your words of advice and caution and for sharing your experiences with me – I will try and take them all on board. Other than the opportunity to learn I am not expecting great things from this experiment, if I end up with some alcohol that I can mix with other things then that will be a bonus.

In the past I have generally stuck to a very narrow range of drinks and have not developed an educated pallet and could not tell the difference between a rye whiskey or a wheat one – I have never tasted either, similarly I would not be able tell the difference between late heads and early tails if they stood up and bit me.

I have had a taste of the Weetabix and Allbran “Whisky” and it is a taste that I do not recognise – – but is hearts, tails, head or a mixture? – I have not got a clue, so I am trying to teach myself and at the same time learn how to drive my still.

I think I will continue and do a Pot “spirit run” just to see if I can isolate the various tastes and smells. It may well all go back into the pot for the Reflux 101 class.

I have lots of questions but if you can point me in the right direction with this one I would appreciate it. For my stripping run I used 2.5 kw – what power would anyone suggest for a spirit run?

Toodlepip

Brian

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:31 am

Re: Allbran and Weetabix - courtesy of bradsgonetreking

2012-06-20T20:16:42+00:00

YHB wrote:
I want to have a play at pot stilling / making cuts etc and see if I can get 3 bottles of hearts, then set up the column and throw the rest of the charge in there to make some neutral – sounds really easy when you say it quickly.

Glad you're staring to have fun Brian, that sounds like a good plan to hit the ground running and learn to run your still, but to start making the better stuff you'll be best doing separate washes IMO.
A lot of the good neutral will be in those pot stilled hearts that you've removed, and some of the nicer flavours might be late heads or early tails that you're trying to neutralise.
With flavoured spirits, I find its not just about removing the smooth middle cut, a lot of what makes it what it is, is in the blending of the sections.
With neutral it is about just that flavourless middle - 2 different games.

Jimmy wrote:
One thing I will say though - cleaning out cereal from a fermenter adds an extra step which annoyed me when I did a cornflake wash, if the flavour is good though it'll be worth it.

Yip Jimmy I found that too, what I ended up doing with grain or breakfast cereal washes was to ferment the first generation on the grain to get as much flavour as possible - you wont be able to use all the wash due to the layer at the bottom.
Then with subsequent generations, I would boil up more of the cereal in the boiler with a mixture of water an backset from the stripping run.
I would then strain this through a colander to remove most of the bits, leaving just a flavourful liquid to add the sugar to, and repitch with some of the original yeast.
By the time you're on the 3rd gen there is loads of flavour and little mess in the fermenter.

aidanmac wrote:
I tried cornflakes once, also tried Wheat Germ once and there's a reason I only did them once. However, I love an experiment so let us know how the Weetabix and Allbran works out for you.

I'm the same - I've done a few of these now, and got some nice flavourful moonshine - but its not like anything you would buy, but was okay.
Rye was the most like a rye whiskey, if you kept the sugar low and used raw sugar it didn't have that sugar wash sweetness to it.

Statistics: Posted by Capt-Cudellez — Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:16 pm

Re: Allbran and Weetabix - courtesy of bradsgonetreking

2012-06-20T19:45:02+00:00

Congrats Brian, glad it's all working out so well.

Allbran ?? that'll give you good runs (sorry, couldn't resist)

I tried cornflakes once, also tried Wheat Germ once and there's a reason I only did them once. However, I love an experiment so let us know how the Weetabix and Allbran works out for you.

AM

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:45 pm

Re: Allbran and Weetabix - courtesy of bradsgonetreking

2012-06-20T12:28:49+00:00

I have just stripped the first batch (21 Litres @ 11.2%) - stopped when I got a full demijohn @ 50+ percent( with half a bottle for tasting tomrrow ).

I pitched this one on 9th June stripped on the 20th - 11 days and the current wash is 48 hous in front of the first,I just hope the little yeasties keep working as hard for the rest of the ferment.

Quite chuffed with the way things have gone so far.

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:28 pm

Re: Allbran and Weetabix - courtesy of bradsgonetreking

2012-06-20T08:58:58+00:00

Good luck Brian! One thing I will say though - cleaning out cereal from a fermenter adds an extra step which annoyed me when I did a cornflake wash, if the flavour is good though it'll be worth it.

Statistics: Posted by Jimmy — Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:58 am