StillSmart

Re: When is a wash completely fermented?

2018-04-18T22:02:28+00:00

Let's all kick Mash in the teeth?

Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:02 pm

Re: When is a wash completely fermented?

2018-04-18T06:39:03+00:00

What about carbon clear???....don't hold back...say it like it is.

Statistics: Posted by Icefever — Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:39 am

Re: When is a wash completely fermented?

2018-04-18T05:38:10+00:00

Lol.

Statistics: Posted by Mash — Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:38 am

Re: When is a wash completely fermented?

2018-04-17T20:26:13+00:00

So what is your view on filtering Mash ?

Statistics: Posted by gaza the instructor — Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:26 pm

Re: When is a wash completely fermented?

2018-04-17T15:41:01+00:00

Malolactic fermentation anyone

You are right its a huge subject. With a vast array of yeast,processes and practises, not to mention final products. I favour alcohol fermentation as primary with two stages (aerobic & anaerobic). Secondaries either include bottles or enzymes. I think we are at tomateos & tomatoes.

Did you think you have hijacked this thread enough yet?

Statistics: Posted by Mash — Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:41 pm

Re: When is a wash completely fermented?

2018-04-17T10:38:28+00:00

OK Mash, you are correct it is a bit unclear.

Yeast like to use the different sugars in a specific sequence - although it does vary a bit between yeast strains.

Most brewers yeast seem to like sucrose first. They break it down into glucose and fructose. Once all the sucrose is gone they eat up the glucose first, followed by fructose, maltose and finally maltotriose. Most yeasts will use up all the glucose in the wash before starting on the other sugars. The glucose and fructose are transported directly into the cell to be metabolised directly.

For some of the other sugars the yeast has to first secrete enzymes that break them down into component parts outside the cell. Those parts are then taken into the cell to be metabolised.

Strangely though maltose and maltotriose are treated differently. These are taken into the cell and broken down (inside the cell) by the enzyme maltase into glucose. Maltose will be used up first, followed by maltotriose.

Primary fermentation - the yeast consumes readily available fermentable sugars. This is aerobic activity and consists of about 70% of the fermentation process.

Secondary fermentation - This is an anaerobic process and is much slower, it takes up the remaining 30% of the fermentation process and is where the yeast processes more complex sugars.

As a side note - if your wash contains too much glucose and fructose from the start (high proportion of corn or rice syrup) then this can actually inhibit fermentation of maltose and maltotriose resulting in a stuck fermentation.

Grain mash is about 50% maltose and 18% maltotriose, so this issue is mostly applicable to mixed grain and sugar fermentations.

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:38 am

Re: When is a wash completely fermented?

2018-04-17T07:23:29+00:00

Not really sure sure I agreed with your 'secondary' (if you mean Ethanol fermentation) Myles, but you rightly say it depends on product. And this is a huge subject.

The OP is spirit washes, and you are bang on.

Statistics: Posted by Mash — Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:23 am

Re: When is a wash completely fermented?

2018-04-17T04:41:40+00:00

Going right back to the OP.
There are two stages of fermentation.

Primary fermentation. This is a vigorous fermentation that takes place in the first few days after the addition of the yeast.

Secondary Fermentation. This is a long slow fermentation after the primary fermentation. This can carry on for weeks or even for wine, months.

A fermentation intended for distilling typically only undergoes primary fermentation. Grain mashes typically are fermented for 72 to 80 hours. During secondary fermentation the yeast produce a family of esters that are undesirable in whisky.

They might be desirable in other products. It is common when producing rum to allow the secondary fermentation to take place. In some styles of rum the primary fermentation is actually enhanced with selected symbiotic bacteria to encourage the production of esters.

In conclusion - there is no easy answer to the question posed as it depends on the product. As an extreme example in the production of Mead it is very common to utilise long, slow, cool fermentation and to add the honey in several small incremental batches.

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:41 am

Re: When is a wash completely fermented?

2018-04-16T06:09:15+00:00

Glyn wrote:
I've not progressed from T & L and Classic 8 Turbo, flavoured with Still Spirits flavourings.

I suppose its whats called intelligent ignorance, I don't know what I don't know.

Exciting times ahead.

Search something like " nuking JD, Jack daniels, bbq chip"
This recipe needs the neutral you have and you could be drinking JD tomorrow.

Statistics: Posted by Mash — Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:09 am

Re: When is a wash completely fermented?

2018-04-15T21:04:37+00:00

Oh yes .
Later this week I have 50ltrs of Corn Flake Whiskey
to strip. I did a test batch(25ltrs) last month.
Stripped on the copperware and spirit in the
Airstill. 2xspirit runs. After cuts ended up with
1.9 ltrs @71%. so just over 4 bottles aged on JD
chips. Very nice drop, didn't last long and no
complaints.
now twice the amount to do

Statistics: Posted by gaza the instructor — Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:04 pm

Re: When is a wash completely fermented?

2018-04-15T20:30:32+00:00

I've not progressed from T & L and Classic 8 Turbo, flavoured with Still Spirits flavourings.

I suppose its whats called intelligent ignorance, I don't know what I don't know.

Exciting times ahead.

Statistics: Posted by Glyn — Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:30 pm

Re: When is a wash completely fermented?

2018-04-15T20:25:50+00:00

With your Whiskeys have you tried ageing with
JD chips and neukin in the microwave,its very
good flavour and quick, 3or 4 days.
I love making and drinking Rum, do you use
molasses and muscavardo or demmarara sugar?
Never made Brandy, got a recipe.
Try Kale Wash there are loads but I like this
Simple cheap and very good.

Statistics: Posted by gaza the instructor — Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:25 pm

Re: When is a wash completely fermented?

2018-04-15T19:59:00+00:00

My Whiskeys, Rums and Brandy's were very nice mixed with "Stripping" run spirit. I think the flavours over kill the "off" flavours of the spirit.

The new twice distilled spirit will no doubt vastly improve the Gins and Vodkas.

For a 2 month "newbie" I am amazed at what can be produced.

Looking forward to experimenting with new washes other than T & L and Classic 8 Turbo.

Thanks guys.

Statistics: Posted by Glyn — Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:59 pm

Re: When is a wash completely fermented?

2018-04-15T19:47:13+00:00

That old boy is an age long debate on here,
and one of personal preference.
If its not a good clean neutral taste it can
help. But it will not get rid of heads or
tails, thats what cuts are for.

Statistics: Posted by gaza the instructor — Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:47 pm

Re: When is a wash completely fermented?

2018-04-15T19:50:35+00:00

Amazing.

So much cleaner.

Next question from "Mr Knobhead", is it worth carbon filtering like the T500 instructions recommend?

Cheers folks.

Statistics: Posted by Glyn — Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:08 pm