StillSmart

Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?

2016-04-04T23:51:27+00:00

For various posts herein contained I award this thread as the thread of the day.
I might do this again.

Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:51 pm

Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?

2016-04-04T21:22:11+00:00

If I told the Mrs I was going to the garage & would be back in 30 hours, I don't think there would be much to come back to!

Statistics: Posted by Benoit — Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:22 pm

Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?

2016-04-04T08:07:49+00:00

It is a valid point about the run times.

Pintoshine over on AD states that he does some runs that are 30 hours, at just 1 litre per hour and that is on a 4" column.

Its one of the reasons I advocate the smaller boiler for the packed column, to bring the run time down to a more reasonable period.

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:07 am

Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?

2016-04-04T07:50:29+00:00

Anavrin wrote:
I feel like I've neglected this thread after starting it, I've been away in my caravan soaking up the rain with little or no phone signal since before Easter.

Ahh the "Joys" of camping roll on Aug.

Just been catching up on it now, I think I'm going to have to slow everything down and use a lot less power, also by getting carried away buying shiney stuff from StillDragon ive switched from VM to CM and I think that's where my main problem lies, ever since I changed from my VM, the quality of my Neutral has gone down :-(

Getting carried away!! you've hit the nail there mate...it can be costly as well...I stopped at my torpedo, but where does that leave your SD column??

I'm also going to use a smaller boiler charge, last time I used the strip from 5 x 25lt wash's, so with that much potential alcohol to collect, it does play on your mind that it's going to be a long run and you can't afford to spend too long trying to compress heads at a couple of drip per second when you know that at some point in the same day you would like to finish the job.

Time is the boss when it comes down to it...my last spirit run went to the line on time when Mrs Ice is saying "dinners on the table"

Next time I'm going back to my home made LM/VM setup, I just need to make a few modifications so I can still use the SD product condensor and parrot.

All the best with sorting it all out.

Statistics: Posted by Icefever — Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:50 am

Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?

2016-04-04T05:58:44+00:00

Treat the 2/3 section as your main column from the design point of view with the short section as an add in for when you want neutral. I wouldn't bother fitting any temp sensors in the short section.

In the longer section it is up to you where you place sensors but I find it convenient to have 1 main sensor (somewhere) in the head itself, and a supplementary sensor about 1/3 of the column length down from the head. Just for a bit of advanced warning of temp changes.

MN still8.jpg

I use a 2 channel temp sensor that reads out both temperatures at the same time (or the differential between them) which I find convenient.

Where you put the sensor in the head is just a matter of convenience, but it helps if it is above the reflux return, so that it is only exposed to product vapour.

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:58 am

Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?

2016-04-04T05:48:36+00:00

If you are using stainless scrubbers or lava in the main section, I would cut the column into 1/3 and 2/3 lengths.

When required add in the 1/3 section closest to the boiler, and I would be tempted to include some SPP in it because you use that section when you want neutral.

In the short section I would be inclined to put in a scrubber at the bottom, add in whatever SPP you have available, and top up with more scrubber to keep the SPP in place. Even a short section of SPP at the base of the column seems to have a significant impact.

As for the flooding - you might not have enough power to cause it, but you can hear it gurgling as the column gets overloaded with liquid.

Try it first with water only in the boiler on full power, just to see if you can overpower the column. Better to throw steam out of your reflux condenser as opposed to alcohol vapour.

With luck you will not be able to get there - which makes life a lot easier for you.

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:48 am

Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?

2016-04-04T03:18:24+00:00

Sorry not been around much over this weekend..family get together

Myles wrote:
Should do you nicely.
Example - just hypothetical.
3" column packed with 36" of stainless scrubbers. Its below optimum height but you want it for rum so are not fussed. So you build it, put the coolant flow on max, shut the VM valve, and start increasing power

Ok my shiney turned up Friday. Today is the day...the first cut is the deepest the song says..but I want to cut it to the correct size...in an other thread I ask about cutting this 1500 mm of 3" that I have...either into 3x500mm or 2x750mm. Myles would you then cut at 36"?? leaving what's left for another section?? .

You listen nervously as you take it up till it is just about to flood and note down the power level. 80% of that is the max you ever use.

As far as I know I've never had a flood, not with the 500 so what "sound" do I listen for ?

Cheers Myles

Statistics: Posted by Icefever — Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:18 am

Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?

2016-04-03T23:24:46+00:00

Just to quietly say that I am loving the way this thread is going, sorry if it is causing Anavrin grief.
My personal knowledge data base seems to have just jumped a little more.

Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:24 pm

Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?

2016-04-03T21:43:51+00:00

I feel like I've neglected this thread after starting it, I've been away in my caravan soaking up the rain with little or no phone signal since before Easter.

Just been catching up on it now, I think I'm going to have to slow everything down and use a lot less power, also by getting carried away buying shiney stuff from StillDragon ive switched from VM to CM and I think that's where my main problem lies, ever since I changed from my VM, the quality of my Neutral has gone down :-(

I'm also going to use a smaller boiler charge, last time I used the strip from 5 x 25lt wash's, so with that much potential alcohol to collect, it does play on your mind that it's going to be a long run and you can't afford to spend too long trying to compress heads at a couple of drip per second when you know that at some point in the same day you would like to finish the job.

Next time I'm going back to my home made LM/VM setup, I just need to make a few modifications so I can still use the SD product condensor and parrot.

Statistics: Posted by Anavrin — Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:43 pm

Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?

2016-04-01T08:43:33+00:00

Should do you nicely.
Example - just hypothetical.
3" column packed with 36" of stainless scrubbers. Its below optimum height but you want it for rum so are not fussed. So you build it, put the coolant flow on max, shut the VM valve, and start increasing power

You listen nervously as you take it up till it is just about to flood and note down the power level. 80% of that is the max you ever use.

You set your run up, stabilise and start taking hearts at 90%. By reducing your product rate you can squeeze that to 94%, but that is enough range for whisky, rum, grappa, vodka etc. Pick your product quality and it will sit there rock solid for the entire run. If you want you can reduce power, slow down to drips of 95% but it is impractical.

You want it cleaner? No problem, stick in another 24" of packing and it pisses out 95%. Ok not as fast as it would do if you could us 90" of packing - but who can?

Trouble is it isn't really adjustable. If you reduce product rate it still produces 95% just slower.
Oh sure you can increase power and might be able to drop the ABV a bit, but go too far and it will laugh at you as it sprays high proof all over your ceiling. Cllse to max power you go from chewing nails to OH SHIT, faster than you can blink.

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:43 am

Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?

2016-04-01T07:28:50+00:00

Myles wrote:
You need to make it modular so you can remove a section of packing. De-tune it, to allow it to run at 90 to 94%, otherwise it will always reset to 95+ and strip all flavour out.

Got ya....this new column will be modular...can't wait for the bits..should be here by the end of next week, fingers crossed.

Statistics: Posted by Icefever — Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?

2016-04-01T07:13:17+00:00

Ok to elabourate. I have nothing against packed colunns. Some folks use them, succesfully, for everything. Whisky, rum, light spirits like grappa, vodka and true neutral.

It is just personal choice. I am essentially, a pot stiller. I make most of my drinking hooch on some form of pot still, and I am including the future plafed column as a pot still.

So in my context the VM I use is treated as a specialist tool and I only use it to make neutral. I don't drink neutral because I don't like it. For me it is just a base for gin and flavoured liqueurs.

I do like vodka, but it isn't neutral. It has a bit of flavour left in. In the future it will come off the plated still and a packed secton.

You can make perfectly good vodka on a VM. Just be advised though that if you set it up to make neutral it will fight you if you try to make something else.

You need to make it modular so you can remove a section of packing. De-tune it, to allow it to run at 90 to 94%, otherwise it will always reset to 95+ and strip all flavour out.

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:13 am

Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?

2016-04-01T06:38:59+00:00

Myles wrote:
I never actually drank anything of the VM.
If I wanted vodka to drink I would 3x pot still it, and leave a trace of flavour in it.

OK back the truck up sunny Jim... ....please elaborate on the first part Myles...as I'm about to start a VM build...(when all the shiney arrives from Mr Woo).
I don't want to build a column if it doesn't fit my needs....we both like our rum...but also enjoy a vodka.

Statistics: Posted by Icefever — Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:38 am

Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?

2016-04-01T04:52:54+00:00

Yes, I used to use 40% but found I could get away with 45%. But this is only for neutral to use as feedstock for flavoured product. I never actually drank anything of the VM.

If I wanted vodka to drink I would 3x pot still it, and leave a trace of flavour in it.

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:52 am

Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?

2016-03-31T23:08:26+00:00

Thanks, that does indeed help a little, it doesn't answer the question that I was asking, re the big boys, but leads me to ask another from curiosity, 45% seems high for spirit run feints to me.
I assume that you found this to be right for you from trials?

Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:08 pm