StillSmart

Possible Mods for Smarts Still?

2010-11-10T19:50:22+00:00

Hi phlogiston
You built that controller thing?
Does not matter what it looks like as long as the bloody thing does what you want. Nice.
I need to collect a bunch of glass jars and stuff. Going to keep the spirit in those square bottles with the swivel cap thing. Eventually will get a few demijohns for putting spirit on wood and stuff when I start that. but no point until I have enough to put in one.
Now I just need to decide what yeast I will use for first batch. No turbo - but I have heard of a pot still yeast from that Gert bloke. Might be worth a look. Another one mentioned on here a Vodka yeast of some sort - I thought it had \"arctic\" in the name. I will find it again - but not tonight. brain is fried.
J

Statistics: Posted by jedm72 — Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:50 pm

Possible Mods for Smarts Still?

2010-11-10T16:18:20+00:00

Here's a picture of my "power controller". Not really elegant engineering, but does the job. The dimmer and meter came from ebay.

The mixed fruit pulp is the first I have done from beginning to end. I had about 16 litres of wash at about 12% abv. I ended up with 1250ml of "hearts" at 66%, i.e. about 2 litres of 40% spirit (plus a litre of "heads" at 80% and about 400ml of "tails" at 40%).
I'm new at cutting and blending, and what I do is much more large scale than you suggest. I don't think I have the skill, or sufficiently sensitive nose and tastebuds, to work with tiny amounts. I start at the middle, go up and discard any jars that smell of heads, then taste the next one or two to see if those have any heads in. This wash was slightly odd in that jar 6 had a slight solventy taste but jar 5 didn't, so I put in half of jar 5. At the bottom end, I taste until there is the faintest hint of unpleasant bitterness and/or wet cardboard then stop (the wet cardboard taste in particular becomes much more obvious if you add mixers to your spirit). Remember to dilute each small sample of spirit to 40% when you taste it, and dilute even more for tasting the tails.
Phantom is quite right in that this gets you a very delicately flavoured spirit. I'm planning to use some of the various products next autumn for sloe gin and crab-apple schnapps, while others I'll be trying to flavour with toasted oak to produce something that vaguely resembles calvados or brandy. I don't think it needs to be a good mimic of the commercial product, just to taste good, but that's just a personal opinion.
I haven't been too fussed about the washes being completely clear when they go in the still. There's no fruit in them, but they are cloudy in the way that a recently completed ferment usually is. I use the boiling rings, and occasionally add distiller's conditioner if I'm feeling anxious, and I haven't had a problem with spitting (yet ... ).

Statistics: Posted by phlogiston — Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:18 pm

Possible Mods for Smarts Still?

2010-11-09T19:12:21+00:00

The amount of output will depend on the alcohol content of the wash. A reason for not trying wash/mash with pulp in it is that some fruits can end up burned on the inside of boiler.
If the end product is one thats made from a 100% liquid wash/mash (like calvados, brandy, whisky etc etc) then you can make that first and distil it. You do have to make sure that whatever you put in the still is as clear as possible as cloudy wash and a full still can cause over boiling which lifts the condenser/fan head and spits out hot/boiling wash. That\'s why it\'s recommended to use rashig rings (or even some broken glass) inside the boiler, as it helps with keeping the boiling bubbles small. I also use \"distillers conditioner\" whicv is an anti-foaming additive.
You\'ll find that it matters not, how strong tasting a wash/mash material is, distillation strips most of that out. Which is why it\'s quicker/easier/less hassle to make neutral spirit and flavour it later. Of course if you want to experiment, then thats great, just that I\'m lazy, impatient, etc etc.

Statistics: Posted by Phantom — Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:12 pm

Possible Mods for Smarts Still?

2010-11-09T18:43:14+00:00

Nice info phlogiston.
I will learn to do it simple and right first and then go complex later. But I had figured 50ml amounts was what would be required as a cutting regime. Not impossible - just needs a method.
The dimmer switch idea is one I have seen now at a few places - i admit I like the sound of it. Pity we cannot get a temp reading at the vapour hole to ascertain what temp the vapour is coming off. Similar to the placement of the thermometer in a reflux up the top of the column just prior to the condensing arm. What sort of total volume do you reckon you pull out when doing your fruit based washes - correction - USABLE product as compared with your "to be redone" later.
I also considered the idea of using an eye dropper to get some from the various 50ml cuts that are made which in total are not great but there may be aspects of the spirit contents that may provide a beneficial profile to the whole - in tiny amounts. My understanding is that some of the flavour and smell profiles come from minute traces - and the real art is knowing which to keep and which to discard. Even a 1% addition is still something - even if minimal. Obviously the first heads and end tails are probably all crap - but some of the others might be ok to have 2ml - or that sort of thing. I would welcome your approach to how you find doing it and the end result. I imagine because you are doing it at all you have found a method that gives you a product you are pleased with - and that is the main objective.
J
edit - I would be interested what the 400w dimmer actually consists of - as I have heard of an inline device that is built into a cable - say for dimming lamps and stuff - and the switch type which would go on the wall.

Statistics: Posted by jedm72 — Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:43 pm

Possible Mods for Smarts Still?

2010-11-09T15:59:27+00:00

Jed, I'm using a Smart Still for the sort of experiments you're talking about.
I've made washes by pressing apples for juice, or by steam extraction and/or pulp fermentation with blackberries and plums with added sugar (strain off the fruit after a few days and let it ferment out). The apple stuff has come up weak (4% abv) so I plan to triple distil that. I've just finished the spirit run and cuts on a mixed fruit pulp wash.
On a spirit run I aim for 25-30% abv in the still, and collect in 50ml lots until the last lot goes below 40% abv (plus some tails after that). When doing the cuts (by smell and taste), I end up keeping about the middle 1/3 to 1/2. The rest goes back to await reprocessing.
Yes, it's a lot of effort for relatively little drink at the end of the day. But I'm learning a lot about the process, and the alcohol I get has a lot less solventy heads and the tails are not nearly so foul tasting as with the still spirits standard turbo yeast. I don't carbon filter, so that cuts down the effort a bit!
It's just a different approach. If it's what suits you, go ahead.
[Edit] PS, I\'ve connected up a 400W dimmer switch and one of those \"economy\" power meters to control the power input to the still, while leaving the fan on a separate lead so that still takes full power. I think it gives better separation of the heads, but I haven\'t any data to support that.

Statistics: Posted by phlogiston — Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:59 pm

Possible Mods for Smarts Still?

2010-11-09T15:12:02+00:00

Yeah I been doing the IT thing for 17 odd years. Just have had a bit of a blip over the last 5 really. That is the way it is. I might write down some of the dumb ass things I encountered over the years.
I think I am sold on fruit AFTER and added to the spirit - not trying to stuff around and get something out of a thing not designed to do it 100% right.
I probably will eventually have a go though. Just because I really like trying to make life hard for myself.
Storage is not really an issue - if I want to put the product on wood or whatever.
I had an idea for that too. Get some of that copper mesh - looks like a bloody big sock - make a little holder - put wood in there - dangle it in the spirit - with a stick or something lodged in the demijohn neck. No pissing around with filtering the bloody wood out. Plus copper won\'t screw up the spirit. I got 25 feet worth of the stuff - I reckon I can make something that will work and be reusable.
Still not sure how I will attach copper in the top of the \"head\" just near the vapour path intake. I need something simple and removable. I am still working on that.
Hot weather has started. well not hot for anyone else. above 25 degrees kicks me a bit. might bugger off to Antarctica and pretend to be a very big penguin for a bit.
I look forward to being able to say I have DONE - rather than just PLANNED.
What size fermenter do you reckon would be ideal? I was thinking 10-15L - with a tap thing I can run the wash off into something else and leave the dregs behind. I will not lose 2-3L in dregs and yeast crap - at least I would not think so. I am thinking one wash = 3 FULL charges of the still X double runs = 6 full runs - unless I cannot count. With heads and tails collected up - for a later go - foreshots tipped on weeds or squirted on a noisy bastard dogs bum. (I promise I do not own a water pistol) Or would buying standard 25L fermenter - and just doing 12L runs be a better option in case I wanted to do bigger later - buy once cry once?
I also found a site - well a few actually - that has recipes people have used - blends of the various essences. If you guys are interested I can make a new topic - under the flavouring part. Might give a few more options for us to try.
J

Statistics: Posted by jedm72 — Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:12 pm

Possible Mods for Smarts Still?

2010-11-09T02:35:26+00:00

Ha, another IT guy here as well, seems we\'re all driven to drink!
Just my little input to this thread - from the faffing about I have done, it gets very messy trying to put fruit etc into the wash, and didn\'t come out with anything special. Far better using them to flavour afterwards, plus you can make a crumble out of the leftovers! Obviously if you have time and storage capacity like Phantom is talking about, it might make a difference - for the amount of faff, doing a single bucket full is a bit of a waste of time I would say although you might enjoy the experiment!

Statistics: Posted by Jimmy — Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:35 am

Possible Mods for Smarts Still?

2010-11-08T20:51:09+00:00

Self employed eh?

So you are another one of those people, like me, who are finding very little work, don\'t show up on government statistics, and can claim bugger all from the state - despite many, many years of crippling tax payments!

Still thr spirit and the Bio are helping redress the balance!

Statistics: Posted by lyonacre — Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:51 pm

Possible Mods for Smarts Still?

2010-11-08T20:27:22+00:00

Cant stand cricket, bunch of yobs standing in the sun with long sleeves and long pants.

Bastards earning millions for what???????

Sorry

A

PS, I do the same as you - my own business - IT consultancy (so much fun, idiots with spyware, viri etc) no wonder I drink

Statistics: Posted by Andy — Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:27 pm

Possible Mods for Smarts Still?

2010-11-08T12:29:56+00:00

Yeah I know Phantom.
I am not trying to polish turds and get diamonds. I understand the limits to what it can do.
I am not trying to rebuild the wheel here - I just want to be able to produce the best product out of it - that is possible. If my mate wants to make bloody slivovitz and whatever - he will have to buy a short pot still column and run it off his boiler - or detune the hell out of the reflux - which I don\'t want to see him doing. Took too long to get it sorted.
I am almost signed off on requiring carbon to filter with - the nano filter thing mentioned here in one of the pages seems like a good unit - and available here in OZ. Small - can refill myself - SS - no bloody plastic.
I would go and buy the bloody thing tomorrow - but I am going slowly first. I will run water through a few times just to get a feel for how it does things. Then I will do a small wash - as a test run - 12-15 liters. Do a few passes to 40% - and collect everything down to 20% odd and chuck that in a \"keep for later bottle\". Then water down the hearts of the 40%\'s and do another run - see what I get. Water it all down in the final mix with distilled water - and chuck it on carbon - depending on the smell/taste I am getting. even if I am only getting 500Ml hearts that are nice @ 40% odd X 3 runs - double distilled - that is 750Ml-ish at a higher ABV% - with more of the crap taken out of it. 1.5L diluted back to 40% - and most of the stuff I make is 30-35%.
It will all be found out in the doing I guess. I can tolerate 2 bottles of ?? something per 6 runs. Plus I still got the dregs to run later in another go. Even chucking away first 100ml - just for safety factor only - I am still doing ok. Not bad for a device that sits there and does it\'s thing and you just sit waiting with a few jars to be changed occasionally.
Sorting a good wash - that will be the thing - and clearing it correctly. Not buggering up the process by putting yeasts in the boiler.
Oh well it is all academic until I got the thing to use. Shopping trip for later this week I think - or at least - window shopping and fact finding prior to doing.
J

Statistics: Posted by jedm72 — Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:29 pm

Possible Mods for Smarts Still?

2010-11-08T11:34:04+00:00

Treat the easystill for what it is Jed, a limited system to produce formulaic neutral spirit. Hell, if you dig around you\'ll find the the US gov\'s ATF branch define vodka as \"flavourless neutral spirit\" which what you make from turbo wash anyway.
For anything else, you\'d be having to make the base product first i.e. the wine for a brandy, cider for a calvados, etc etc. There\'s plenty of fruit flavoured liqueur you can make by just soaking it and adding some sugar to sweeten.
Your problem with trying to get adventurous with something as small and relatively inflexible as an easy still, is the discretion thing. Sugar turbo\'s are good in that respect, anything else can stink a bit.
As for watching OZ lose at cricket, they\'ll be back in winning ways soon enough, it\'s ashes time soon and as usual England are as much use as a chocolate fire guard!

Statistics: Posted by Phantom — Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:34 am

Possible Mods for Smarts Still?

2010-11-08T09:03:26+00:00

In Melbourne Andy. Bloke next door is ok - he only drinks wine. Other side if you breath or fart or open your eyes the fking dog starts barking and the owner is out there trying to see wtf set it off. POS dog barks at itself - or something 50 light years away it thinks might be there. Bastard of a dog. Dog would bark underwater covered in 10 feet of concrete.
Safer to keep my head down and stay off the radar.
I also have an issue due to being unable to work anymore - I was diagnosed with MS (multiple sclerosis) 14 months back - I am living with \"the folks\" until I can get my self sorted again. I have been out of action for 7 years. I had my own business - IT consultancy. No one pays you to sit on your ass asleep for 7 years
Hence I got heaps of time to get it right from a method point of view
So there is a limited amount of stuff I can get away with and having a reflux device sitting out in the open/can be seen - etc - is not going to cut it just now.
However the EasyStill device has been given the nod. It is something I can do with my dad whilst we watch us getting beaten in the bloody cricket. Good use of time - plus watching the thing - JIC it goes kaboom.
I am now looking at jars to use for collection when doing the cuts. Even if I have to have 10 jars - I don\'t care - I am learning. I know how the reflux still works now and I know we can produce a good spirit out of it. Now I want to try this and see what I can do. If I NEED 90+% I will get my mate to make me some next time he is doing it. Although we got enough \"stocks\" to last us midway into 4593AD
I look at it as an exercise in seeing what is possible with the ES.
Same as I did when we could only get 87% out of the Reflux. Find out what is wrong by trying 1 new thing at a time until it comes good. It did. Not bloody rocket science - just getting a stable and repeatable process down.
The ES is at least stable - not much to fart about with and have go wrong. So the rest is patience - wash and learning to make it work the best it can. If I only produce a decent semi neutral spirit - then I am doing it right. The rest as has been said is experimentation and trying new flavours. As long as I am happy with the results - and I am doing it safe - who gives a toss what anyone else might think.
Dumb ass Gov will let you make beer that tastes like dish water - but won\'t let you make a spirit that is probably better than some store bought examples. My anarchistic tendencies say I REFUSE to comply with BS narrow minded approach. NZ has it right - do it safe - give people the tools - and they will WANT to do it safe and make a good product for PERSONAL use that is better than the crap they were making with pressure cooker and 5 yards of copper pipe.
I will be doing this within the month. My crimbo prezzy to myself
Bloody good forum Jimmy. Thanks. Shows what can be achieved by people who want to help - not talk themselves up.
J

Statistics: Posted by jedm72 — Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:03 am

Possible Mods for Smarts Still?

2010-11-08T03:20:16+00:00

I think you should offer the next door neighbors a bottle or 2 to shut them up.

Then just run a reflux

Where are you in oz Jed

Statistics: Posted by Andy — Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:20 am

Possible Mods for Smarts Still?

2010-11-07T05:37:59+00:00

Thanks guys.
There is some very good stuff available right off the shelf - true. There is an awesome column reflux device made in NZ called a PDA1 - all copper construction. They ran the output of that through a big scientific lab over there and it was better than store bought \"good\" vodka. So - yeah I could go and get anything or get a bloke to make me one. 2 issues - stealth - I don\'t own the property I would be doing it on + nosey pricks for neighbours.
So unless I do it in the garage with door closed - I am sitting outside with a big copper thing in the backyard. I will admit water is now not an issue - although the movement of the water storage device - a \"wheelie\" bin full to the top - should be more than enough. I cannot move 200+ kilos of water - well not without spilling 199 kilos at least
However - if I cannot distill the fruit and get a nice product - then I bring the fruit to the spirit and make a nice steeping sort of thing. Fruit and flavoured spirit is better than nothing. My mate would not agree.
I could make a small batch of plums say as a mash and then do a limited run and see how I go. If it is crap - I re-dilute and just collect hearts and the rest can be donated to weed killing. Harder to clarify a fruit wash I would imagine though. Would it be better to just deal with juice rather than fruit pulp being in the wash? I have no problem making a nice juice - just time factor. Is it similar to making wine if you got some sticks and stuff you will make more methanol - if you have skins and stuff for a fruit wash - would it impart extra non useful properties to the distilled product? Cuts being the problem here.
I know seeds and stuff have to be removed - cyanic compounds and such being the problem in a distilled product.
My mate has a wine press for doing grapes. I imagine that could be used for apples too - but you would have to smash the apples up first. Personally I would prefer to drink the cider rather than distill it but that is just me. Plums are easy.
Your concoction sounds good Phantom. Interesting thing about the additives - from Still Spirits etc - the longer they are left - the better they are - to the point that something that was total crap a week after making it is fantastic 12 months later. Just had some scotch we made 2 years back and it was beautiful. My dad said it was the best he had tasted in a long while. Now you will want to know which one it was - ? - my mate is label inept - but if we find the bottles that have labels and I find a name I will let you know.
Ronbo your point of the potstill being for producing just a vodka like spirit seems to fly in the face of using a pot still but I know what you mean. Difficulty in doing cuts means it is a pot still - but without the ability to accurately find where the flavours are coming in. All understood. I essentially want to try and reproduce a rum that is from spain called Cathique - (KA-THEE-K) a vanilla rum. Bloody fantastic drink. Had it when I was in Japan of all places - spanish dudes had heaps of it - we got well sorted - I was talking 5 forms of shorthand. So if I can make a thing like that and I am happy - then I am happy.
I am not the sort of bloke that has to have one of everything - or 50 squillion gallons of scotch - just in case ?? I drink to enjoy the drink not to get pissed off my head - therefore I will spend time getting it right. I won\'t drink it if it tastes like cats piss no matter what the alc % is.
I will tinker and try new things. Chuck it on wood and see what happens. 100% I will NOT be trying to save every single drop out of the thing and getting crook because of it. I already trained my mate out of that bullshit approach with his device. Took a while. He now willingly throws the first 100ml - just to make sure. I did 12 months reading before we ever did a run. I want to KNOW first and then do. I will make mistakes - but not because I was doing it dumb.
Now I just got to work out if it is a next week purchase or not. Plus all the fermentation gear and whatever.
Good info guys. Thanks. All input helps to get things sorted.
J

Statistics: Posted by jedm72 — Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:37 am

Possible Mods for Smarts Still?

2010-11-06T22:51:59+00:00

Well if you\'re in OZ jed, then you might have to think about using the yeast that\'s designed to work ok up to about 35 degrees C - unless you\'ve enough space for a couple of buckets indoors (with AC on). Likewise the still, unless you\'ve got a basement of course.
It might make life easy if you can make a wash then look up about making a bucket still, because it might be feasible to leave that outside to warm up when it gets hot and then just put it in the house over night, it\'d be slow, but for the price of a couple of buckets and some black plastic, it might be brilliant.
If money isn\'t an issue, then don\'t forget that there\'s so brilliant custom made (off the shelf) stills available in OZ, then it\'d just be a case of having a couple of 225 litre plastic barrels and a water cooler/chiller device inline to run a reflux device....... which would also keep the cost of cooling down as well.
As for fruit washes ? Yes, I\'ve done cider that\'s been made from kits (easier and less hassle than having to press the apples for the juice - but if you\'ve got the kit, then pressing the apples would be cheaper, so it\'s just the time....). I just made up the kits as per the instructions, then added some sugar to increase the %ABV, instead of the yeast from the kit, I used \"Ritchies Cider yeast\" (dunno what the one from the kit was....).
I\'d bin the first 50mls, then just run the still, until the output was down to about 20%. That\'s then chucked into a carboy with oak chips (oak chips ? it\'s just fucking oak sawdust, from oak barrels that\'s been toasted a bit). The carboy has the distillate from about 100 litres of kit cider, plus the distillate from some other batches of wines and meads that I\'ve made, and not enjoyed the results, so they also went through the still.
I\'ve been filling the carboy slowly but surely, it\'s about 35 litres worth at the moment and I\'ll just keep going till it\'s full. At the moment, the \"Mixed Fruit Brandy\" (as I\'ve taken to calling it) is still a bit rough and has a whisky like taste to it, but it\'s a nice colour. Hopefully in a couple of years more, it will take on more of a brandy/calvados type flavour.......

Statistics: Posted by Phantom — Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:51 pm