StillSmart

Re: Low ABV

2012-12-01T10:41:39+00:00

First, let me say I absolutely respect your preference P. I know you find certain essences satisfactory and I agree we all have different tastes. No offence intended.

My expressed opinion on essences is based on having tried all the available 'Bourbon' essences when I was starting out. As a veteran Bourbon and Sour Mash drinker I found them all to be seriously lacking for my tastes but it would be wrong for me to say my opinion is right and other's wrong so I apologise if I gave that impression.

When I'm making my 'faux' Sour Mash or Bourbon type whiskies I'm not trying to replicate a particular brand but rather a genre of whisky. I'm sure many seasoned Sour Mash or Bourbon drinkers would not find my spirits to their liking because what I make is noticeably different to commercial products.

In fact, since getting my own whisky to the level it's at now I wouldn't pay money for the run-of-the-mill Sour Mash or Bourbon that is sold over the counter today.

I don't have access to a Kentucky distillery either but I've found a way to make a very good quality product of that genre, with a purer and cleaner base than I believe the big distilleries use, and at relatively low cost.

Using good quality neutral on the JD chips is very close indeed to the original product but without the burn associated with the commercial product plus, the spirit I make today is suitable for sipping with nothing added.

All grain liquor on toasted American White Oak has proved to be a really worthwhile whisky to make - just not all the time. My first attempt is just over 1 year old and it tastes wonderful but there's the drawback, it's taken just over a year to get to that quality and for some, that's just too long to wait.

So, having headed towards total All Grain spirits I have now pulled back and make my day-to-day spirits from sugar and LME and long aging spirits are a project that I intend to return to and will make two 60lt washes per quarter in 2013 and put the finished spirits on Oak for proper aging.

AM

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:41 am

Re: Low ABV

2012-12-01T05:07:02+00:00

See, I disagree about the essences point. Yes the one you're trying might not be exactly as you hope but in fairness, if you haven't got access to a massive great distillery in Kentucky or Tennessee etc, you're expecting too much for a tiny bottle or plastic sachet to taste the same. If it gets somewhere within the ball park its achieved the point.

After all, if the base isn't as neutral as you can make it, then its likely to taste different, plus all our perception of taste will be different, so maybe using an essence but then tweaking the taste some is the better way to proceed, as none of us are likely to have the facility to replicate the method/techique/materials of the genuine article.....

Statistics: Posted by Phantom — Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:07 am

Re: Low ABV

2012-11-30T17:33:37+00:00

I second Aidan's thumbs down on essences and recommendation of JD chips. Carbon filter first so you get rid of the sweet sugar taste and you will like the results. I can't agree with the Maple syrup. Canadian or not, I can't abide by the stuff.

Chuck

Statistics: Posted by chill — Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:33 pm

Re: Low ABV

2012-11-30T09:07:46+00:00

Great job Egg. I still remember the great sense of satisfaction on completing my first successful run so I know how you're feeling.

What you now have is a good quality drinking spirit and the knowledge that you produced it with your own hands and equipment - congratulations.

It gets easier from here on and you'll quickly learn to fine tune your spirits with more targeted cuts on the spirit runs to get exactly what you want.

On the JD question - Yes and not just remotely close but we can get to almost the real thing.

Essences are, IMHO, a very poor substitute. Lots of wrong tastes, which you can get used to, but they're never going to be as good as using the correct type of Oak and time. But there is a very useable shortcut which works very well indeed - Jack Daniels BBQ Wood Chips.

These are Jack Daniels barrels broken up and sold as smoking chips but they still contain some of the original characteristics of the toasted American White Oak barrels in which real Sour Mash was aged and some of the product that those barrels contained is dried into the grain and your spirit will draw it out.

Go read this thread viewtopic.php?f=6&t=558. If you go to page 2 on that thread you'll see the results of an extensive test using these BBQ chunks.

The thread also contains a reference to Essencia Bourbon Chunks. These are good too but they're expensive, IMO, while the JD BBQ wood chips are excellent and cost much, much less.

A good soaking for 7-10 days then straining through cotton wool or a coffee filter and you'll be amazed at the quality, taste and feel of the finished Whisky.

If you want to make this type of spirit I recommend getting yourself some Distillers Caramel and a bottle of good quality Maple Syrup.

The Caramel is a colouring agent so you can adjust the colour of the final spirit to suit your needs without affecting the flavour. The addition of a small amount of Maple Syrup is used by some, me included, to enhance the final Whiskey and make it into a lovely Sippin' Whisky to be enjoyed on it's own.

My tongue's hanging out now - see what you started?

Anyway, congratulations again, now you're really in the club

AM

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:07 am

Re: Low ABV

2012-11-30T05:36:13+00:00

Still Spirits Classic Range Tennessee bourbon flavouring is a decent enough jd clone. I happily drink it straight or mixed. Some say its got more of Makers Mark than JD. But that's hard too tell as Markers Mark is like rocking horse shit here.......

Statistics: Posted by Phantom — Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:36 am

Re: Low ABV

2012-11-29T22:07:16+00:00

congrats on your first spirit run,i ended keeping my 2x100ml after the 1000ml
and mixed that with the hearts(1000ml) then i collect 5x100ml of tails which will
into the next batch of fermented wash

as for flavours i got some from prestige essence see here >> viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1343

for Jd i gone for tenesee sour mash for which where jd is based and come from
ive not sampled mine yet

but i do recomend jamaican white rum flavour (dunno if its ment to be bacardi)
with a bit of cola

Statistics: Posted by Magnu420 — Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:07 pm

Re: Low ABV

2012-11-29T21:05:57+00:00

OK, that's the first batch completed and well on my way up the steep part of the learning curve.

Once all the stripping runs were put together it came out at 44% and watered down to 12Lt at 28%

On each of the 3 spirit runs I threw away the first 50ml as instructed, saved the next 250ml in a seperate jar for mixing with future 'heads'. (when the time comes, do I just do exactly the same procedure with the heads run?) kept the 1000ml as 'hearts' and that was about it. I did save a couple of 100ml jars after the hearts were taken but didn't feel confident enough to use them or any 'tails' as I really couldn't tell any difference in smell, maybe next time.

The heads I am saving registered 76%.
The combined hearts came out at 70%
So I am the proud producer of 5.2 litres of 40% alcohol.

I realise it should have been more and the true test will be when it is tasted - but hey, I'm delighted.

Just got to filter it all over the weekend then think about flavouring. Can anybody recommend anything remotely like JD?

Thanks all for your help - I am so pleased I found you and your hobby.

Egg

Statistics: Posted by Egg — Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:05 pm

Re: Low ABV

2012-11-29T10:29:38+00:00

I use VS with 6kg of sugar and it works fine for me. Make sure no air can get into your fermenter as when that happens, the yeast produces more yeast instead of alcohol.

Statistics: Posted by John51 — Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:29 am

Re: Low ABV

2012-11-29T05:05:18+00:00

The VS packs have the nutrient already in them as I understand. I usually use the charcoal and finings if doing a SS triple distilled yeast batch but I've not bothered when doing VS batches as I just leave it an extra week or so and it seems to drop clear.......

Once youve stripped a batch, for safety reasons it's best to let the batch down to less than 40% as it prevents the coil being inundated on the spirit run. Personally I just take the distillate down to about 40% on strip and then when I do a spirit run with an air still I get about 85% ABV......

《edit》oh and when letting spirit down, it depends where you are but if you're in a hard water area dont use tap water. Either reverse osmosis, distilled or at least brita filtered water. It helps prevent the harshness that can be tasted when theres calcium and/magnesium salts present in the water......

Statistics: Posted by Phantom — Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:05 am

Re: Low ABV

2012-11-27T23:11:24+00:00

You guys are so encouraging - thanks.
Onwards & upwards
Egg

Statistics: Posted by Egg — Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: Low ABV

2012-11-27T21:14:37+00:00

i forgot to take the sg and the fg on two washes ive done lol
just make sure your wash is down to 990 or below and clear (it helps if
you stand the bin with the racked off wash on a cold floor or summat)

im still a newbie meself but ive learnt,when i got my airstill i did the same
ending up getting turbo yeast+carbon+clear (for which i didnt use) and doing
a VS wash on the advise of the other members and aidan (i still got it not used)

heres a couple of links which might give you a helping hint or summat

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1232

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1287

(edit links doh)
also i forgot about the calculator

http://homedistiller.org/calcs/dilute

and for android

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1361

Statistics: Posted by Magnu420 — Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:14 pm

Re: Low ABV

2012-11-27T21:01:28+00:00

I would expect that amount on sugar in that volume of water to have produced more alcohol. Maybe the yeast died? In any event, you got what you got. Just carry on.

Taking Gravity readings helps to confirm when the wash is done, as opposed to just stuck, and the quantity of alcohol that you can expect.

Chuck

Statistics: Posted by chill — Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:01 pm

Re: Low ABV

2012-11-27T20:30:44+00:00

Hi Egg, you don't need to add any nutrient to your vodka star wash,it will work ok, it takes a few runs to get the hang of this distilling lark don't get disheartened if you need any help then you only need to ask the people on this site will give you all the help they can. alan

Statistics: Posted by alan — Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:30 pm

Re: Low ABV

2012-11-27T20:10:37+00:00

Thanks all for your help - I realise now that my education hasn't even started.

I didn't take any gravity readings at the start or finish of fermentation as I didn't know it was important. Wash was 26L and 7K of granulated sugar, carbon as sold to me when I purchased the air still and Vodka Star yeast. Cleared with the double pack sold by the shop. Temperature was 30 when I put in the yeast and ambient temp was 25 throughout fermentation.

I will dilute as you suggest once all six stripping runs are done.

Another stupid mistake is that I have another wash on the go and have not included a nutrient, only sugar and VS yeast, what does the nutrient do? Whilst it is bubbling away nicely perhaps I should get rid of it now and start again?

Or maybe I am too old to learn new tricks and should put the whole lot on Ebay.

Thanks again, I'm off for a large JD.

Egg

Statistics: Posted by Egg — Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:10 pm

Re: Low ABV

2012-11-27T19:31:57+00:00

Don't fret about the batch ABV. As Magnu said, it's only a guide and a very rough one to get a beginner started on double distilling which some were having a hard time getting to grips with. You haven't slipped up and please don't get disheartened. We've all been there and had good runs and not so god ones but none are ever unrecoverable.

The chart assumes a certain ABV but the main point is to stop collecting the strip when the alcometer dips just below 20% rather than looking to get the full measure of 1350ml.

The guide was intended to illustrate that you should take the collected low wines from each batch and dilute to a strength that will give you 6 batches for a spirit run. In the batch used to construct the guide I happened to dilute to 30% but that percentage is not cast in stone.

Here's a suggestion that will help you with what you've got in your current batch.

Instead of diluting to 30%, dilute to 27% instead. If you have 1350ml @ 40%ABV and you want to dilute to 27%ABV you will add 650ml of water. This will increase each batch of low wines to 2000ml or 2lt. Multiplied by six batches that will give you 12lt or three 4lt Spirit Runs and you can take it from there.

The description of cuts is in very broad terms and the more advanced way of making cuts is by smell and taste and you can follow how in my Beginners Guide to Spirit Cuts. (Again, it's a Guide and if you're not sure about anything in it just ask. )

At the end of the day you'll get maybe 50ml less final spirit and that's not a bad result. Don't forget to air your spirit for 24hours and filter.

Let us know how you get on.

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:31 pm