StillSmart

Re: T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

2016-03-26T07:19:39+00:00

Echo4golf wrote:
Thanks! I agree with building a pot still head. The only really intimidating part of that is connecting the thing to the existing lid. I think I'm going to hit the local big boxes tomorrow and see what I can find. It's been a long time since I soldered anything, but as I recall it's not that challenging.

You used a gate valve, no? I've got the parts to wire up a 4KW SCR power controller. I might try that as well though. Truth to tell the needle valve doesn't bother me that much. Yet.

The needle valve is what controls the accuracy/precision of the water flow of a T500 column.

A pot still head isn't a magic bullet. Yes it does give you more flexibility in different products you might want to make, but you must use pot still methods. Properly run, your T500 should be producing neutral at 90%+. I routinely get 94% with mine. The only improvement would be better packing for the column like SPP (can't say what it might do with pummice/lava rock, not tried it).

I tend to let my first run neutral down with RO water to below 40% then re-run it before carbon filtration. That gives me a good clean tasting neutral.

A pot still lid and condenser (the still spirits ones) just give you the choice to make flavoured spirits - but those depends on getting appropriate ingredients then being able to use the same boiler. Whether you still need the needle valve ? Dunno, but I doubt it as you'd likely need a greater water flow to the condenser.

Statistics: Posted by Phantom — Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:19 am

Re: T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

2016-03-26T03:22:14+00:00

Mr Four Square wrote:
That's a pretty good list EG. Getting hold of a pot head will kick your makings up a level. The little Still Spirits style ones will only hold you back. I strongly suggest you get one made. There are some good plans on the site or someone here with copper skills may offer you a deal.

Soon as you have one you'll be stripping washes and running some pretty clean neutrals through the column.

Yes temp control on the T500 is very twitchy. Told you how I fixed mine. I doubt it would cost much more than 10 pounds to build and as you've got the needle valve its all as per the photo. Have a few sessions of madly chasing the flow temps up and down like a mad see saw and you might be ready to give it a go

Thanks! I agree with building a pot still head. The only really intimidating part of that is connecting the thing to the existing lid. I think I'm going to hit the local big boxes tomorrow and see what I can find. It's been a long time since I soldered anything, but as I recall it's not that challenging.

You used a gate valve, no? I've got the parts to wire up a 4KW SCR power controller. I might try that as well though. Truth to tell the needle valve doesn't bother me that much. Yet.

Cheers,
Jerry

Statistics: Posted by Echo4golf — Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:22 am

Re: T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

2016-03-26T03:16:58+00:00

Seagull wrote:
If you had a stalled fermentation, I'd reckon that could be the foundation of all the problems you encountered. Did you take an SG reading with a hydrometer before running?

That's my 2p worth. Will let the guys with the real knowledge pick this up.

It stalled twice. The first time, I added baking soda and it took off with a vengeance. The second time the baking soda did nothing so I think the poor little yeasties had kicked the bucket. Yes I read the gravity and decided to run the wash despite the low alcohol reading. I probably could have re-pitched some yeast, but this really was more of an experimental run for the new unit.

Statistics: Posted by Echo4golf — Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:16 am

Re: T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

2016-03-24T20:34:03+00:00

That's a pretty good list EG. Getting hold of a pot head will kick your makings up a level. The little Still Spirits style ones will only hold you back. I strongly suggest you get one made. There are some good plans on the site or someone here with copper skills may offer you a deal.

Soon as you have one you'll be stripping washes and running some pretty clean neutrals through the column.

Yes temp control on the T500 is very twitchy. Told you how I fixed mine. I doubt it would cost much more than 10 pounds to build and as you've got the needle valve its all as per the photo. Have a few sessions of madly chasing the flow temps up and down like a mad see saw and you might be ready to give it a go

Statistics: Posted by Mr Four Square — Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

2016-03-24T08:50:56+00:00

If you had a stalled fermentation, I'd reckon that could be the foundation of all the problems you encountered. Did you take an SG reading with a hydrometer before running?

That's my 2p worth. Will let the guys with the real knowledge pick this up.

Statistics: Posted by Seagull — Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:50 am

Re: T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

2016-03-24T02:00:58+00:00

A quick follow up... I got through the second go-round with that wash and wound up with very little ethanol. I think that the fermentation stalled and the yeast died off. I didn't mind trying to run it anyway as it was the first go-round for my T-500.

Lessons Learned:

-The flow control is indeed tetchy. No surprise but what the heck. At the same time, I didn't have enough issues to make it worth replacing yet. The gate valve goes pretty low on the list. (After the pot still head...)

-Ignore the silly thermometer as a rule. Higher up on the list goes figuring out how to mount a thermometer at the top of the column.

-Want pot still head. Soon!

-Need to tighten up the insulation jacket.

-Insulate the lid too.

-The insulated boiler works well to mash in. Especially once I found an appropriate thing to stir with... (Barbecue spatula.)

Best,
Jerry

Statistics: Posted by Echo4golf — Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:00 am

Re: T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

2016-03-23T14:28:08+00:00

Supplied with the needle valve as standard AFAIK (well mine was).

Dunno if the gate valve works as a secondary flow control or not. The flow valves used for caravans work taking the stress of mains pressure off the needle Vv so it works smoothly and as intended.........

Statistics: Posted by Phantom — Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:28 pm

Re: T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

2016-03-23T08:57:05+00:00

No need for a needle valve. Use a gate valve. It works much better and is available from your hardware store. You will need to get creative to connect the small T500 water hose to the gate valve but you can do it.

A garden hose goes on to one side to feed mains pressure . The gate valve gives excellent control over flow. Far better than the needle valve which can be too fine to get to your starting temperature.

The gate valve makes the large adjustments and the small ones you need to fine tune as the run proceeds.

At the moment I have the needle valve fitted just because I'd already bought it. This set up really works. If you already have the needle valve then you can use the same set up as is in the photo

Statistics: Posted by Mr Four Square — Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:57 am

Re: T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

2016-03-20T12:40:18+00:00

I've recently run my first run with the Still Spirits stainless steel saddles. I also put a new packet of the copper saddles at the top of the column. After aan initial period of difficulty in keeping the temperature steady, I quickly adjusted to the new stainless steel packing.

I'm pretty happy with the new saddles but at £9 for the copper saddles and £20 for the stainless steel, it isn't the most cost effective option.

As for controlling the temperature, I have found the Still Spirits water flow regulator an absolute godsend. Only problem is that they aren't available in the UK so I had to order from NZ and Oz. I ended having to pay import duty on the one from Oz.

Statistics: Posted by Seagull — Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

2016-03-20T12:06:45+00:00

See, when I run my T500, it's set up as "bog standard" and while I like to mess with double distilling etc(distill once, removing foreshots, let it finish then let the spirit down to <40% with RO water, then redistill before letting down to exactly 40% before carbon filtering), I get 94% ABV out of it all the time.

That's with the copper at the top of the column and ceramic "saddles" for the rest. I've tried using copper mesh with my previous SS super reflux and it was a bit of a nuisance i.e. either packed too loose or too tightly and constantly got variable results.

I don't really want to try copper mesh in a T500 column as it's too easy to damage the non-metal parts of it, either by excessive heating or how the mesh is packed/inserted.

If you wanted to try better packing to the ceramic saddles, I'd say SPP would be best as it can be "poured" in like the ceramics, shaken/rattled to seat it properly and you may then only need something to retain it at the bottom (I suspect some sort of stainless mesh inside the screw fitting/mouting. Maybe it might be possible to use copper mesh or a stainless scrubber to retain the SPP as it wouldn't need to be stuffed in there too tightly just to keep it in place having little to no effect on the vapour path.

As for my thermometers, when the still is running it sits nicely at temp, somewhere between 55 and 65 C as per the makers guide/instructions (don't do the counting of drips etc, but a full charge of 25 litres takes about 4.5 hours to run).

I'm thinking that if you wanted to play with scrubbers/mesh whether stainless or copper, you'd be better placed building a column designed for it rather than trying to use the T500 tubes - SPP should work (pretty sure someone else has already tried it) but may depend on the size of the pieces as to how easy it is to use.

The only issue I actually get with the still, is that you need a caravan water pressure stabilising valve between the mains inlet and the needle valve, otherwise the tiniest of adjustments of the needle valve (a 16th of a turn or thereabouts) can make the temperature swing by as much as 5 degrees.

Dunno if any of that is of any use or not.........

Statistics: Posted by Phantom — Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:06 pm

Re: T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

2016-03-20T03:05:11+00:00

A lot of guys run a stripping run flat out...all your doing is taking any "likker" out of the wash to make low wines...

When it comes to the spirit run you go as slow as possible..this is where the fores, heads, hearts & tails come into it...some guys say a drip a sec is cock on.

Statistics: Posted by Icefever — Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:05 am

Re: T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

2016-03-20T02:59:04+00:00

Yee ha!
However that is spelt!

Hope that you are done and relaxed by now.
Let us know how it went.

Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:59 am

Re: T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

2016-03-20T01:50:05+00:00

And... Having reset everything, the still is running nicely at 94-95. I have a steady stream of product that is now lukewarm. I'll probably want to run it slower for the spirit run but this is more what I was expecting. I'm also up against an issue with the wash. I'll post more after the run completes.

Statistics: Posted by Echo4golf — Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:50 am

Re: T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

2016-03-19T23:36:46+00:00

Thanks Robert. Agreed. I also found the thread that I remembered about temperature issues. Basically it says ignore the temp and go for the correct flow rate. I kind of surmised as much when the distillate was so cool. Other threads talk about speeding up the still and collecting a warm product. I'll light it off agiain later and see what happens.

J

Statistics: Posted by Echo4golf — Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:36 pm

Re: T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

2016-03-19T22:39:49+00:00

Keep plugging away there, things usually get better.
And every run is a thing to learn from.
ATB

Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:39 pm