StillSmart

Re: Air still v t500

2012-07-18T13:25:02+00:00

Ok, so here's my tuppence worth (no declarations of "fact and fiction" etc, just how I do my turbo's).

HDPE bucket from the local HBS (27 litre size).

Tap water to 21 litres plus the 6kg of sugar, then I let it cool to room temp over night usually.

Chuck the yeast in (still using up the packs of Vodka Star I got from ellie-claire) and stir with a plastic brewing paddle. Clip the lid on and either a bit of cotton wool or rolled up kitchen roll to blank the air lock grommet so the CO2 escapes but the flies can't get in.

Then I leave it alone for a fortnight. In which time, it's fermented and the yeast drop's out.

The wash is then siphoned directly into the boiler (T500) and a capful of conditioner/anti-foaming agent added, the lid/column is added and water turned on. I put a gallon jar (a DJ) on the outlet and leave it alone, just having a quick look to make sure that the temp stays below 65C from time to time.

After between 4.5 and 5 hours, the still stops i.e. no more distillate coming out, as it's got as much out as it's going too.

The distillate is let down to <50% with reverse osmosis water - the idea being that I've already removed as much as I'm likely to, from the original tap water wash, and don't want to add anything else (hard water here, so I don't want to include any more calcium and magnesium salts, as they make for a slightly harsh tasting neutral), then that's run, but I will time things (about an hour and a half) so I can remove the 50mls of foreshots. Then let it go as above, but this time keeping the temp between 55 and 60C.

I still get the equivalent of 3.6 litres @ 94% ABV from each original 25 litre wash.

The distillate is then let down with RO water to as closely to 40% ABV as I can manage, and then it's run through my Z filter, at least once, often twice.

Resulting in a very clean, flavourless, (actually quite smooth) neutral.

The differences between the results of a T500 and air/easy still ? Apart from the obvious i.e. water supply as well as power, each 4 litre batch in the air/easy still, takes about 2 and a half hours to run, so it's a long day to process a full 25 litre batch. Then as I still like to re-distill, letting it down to <50% and re-running the results gives me distillate at about 80%, instead of the initial 60% after first run.

The T500, will do the whole 25 litre batch in 4.5 to 5 hours, it gives me 94% ABV spirit, so I can easily re-run a batch for my perceived cleaner spirit run.

I don't take cuts, other than to make sure that any higher alcohols/fusels that may have fermented out, are removed. It's not like I'm trying to get a clean spirit, but transfer over some of the flavours like when you're doing a "proper" whisky/brandy type run, then I would probably do cuts properly.

So yes to the original post, a T500 is worth the extra money IMO (don't forget, I originally move up, from an air/easy still to the earlier model of the SS super reflux - which took about 8 hours to run a whole 25ltr batch, but even that was worth the money IMO - I would get about 85% ABV from a first run and about 90% ABV from the re-distill).

Sure, it depends on what or how you need to connect it to the water, but I reckon it's worth the hassle/effort etc.

Statistics: Posted by Phantom — Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:25 pm

Re: Air still v t500

2012-07-02T22:04:37+00:00

Attach your plastic home brew spoon to an electric drill and spin the hell out of it........stick it on reverse and do it again.......keep switching back and forth.......saves you money and time

Statistics: Posted by knobby — Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:04 pm

Re: Air still v t500

2012-07-02T20:48:50+00:00

Best to get a degassing stick or your mixing paddle and use an electric drill. easier and better

Statistics: Posted by Admiral Toad — Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:48 pm

Re: Air still v t500

2012-07-02T19:33:52+00:00

aidanmac wrote:
Yes, glass - plastic's OK for fermenting but not for anything that's coming out of the still.

Don't forget to beat all of the CO2 out of the wash before adding the Turbo Clear or it may not work very well.

AM

Is vigorous stirring adequate for that?

Statistics: Posted by shawry99 — Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:33 pm

Re: Air still v t500

2012-07-02T19:30:02+00:00

Yes, glass - plastic's OK for fermenting but not for anything that's coming out of the still.

Don't forget to beat all of the CO2 out of the wash before adding the Turbo Clear or it may not work very well.

AM

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:30 pm

Re: Air still v t500

2012-07-02T19:24:20+00:00

Thanks very much

As it happens got home from work, and my wash has about finished, its showing 990 on my gauge, so tomorrow after work I'll add my turbo clear.

Will get myself demijons and containers tomorrow too if I can source - assuming its glass I need?

Statistics: Posted by shawry99 — Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:24 pm

Re: Air still v t500

2012-07-02T19:11:03+00:00

No probs to answer your questions Shawry99.

First up. On the stripping run you collect everything until the ABV drops to 30% (that's my preference while some go down to 20% I don't think it's worth it).

Yes, 3 DJs will accommodate the strip from a 24lt cleared wash. (6 X 1.5lt max from each 4lt run and if you add some Tails from a previous run you may need to dilute the strip down to 30% for the Spirit Run)

Apologies for the mistake about the Heads. I was rushing and meant to say "future Heads Only Spirit run."

Heads Only Run has a couple of pecularities: Heads are what you collect on the Spirit Run after you've disposed of the Foreshots so there won't be any Foreshots to collect on a Heads Only Run.

Another peculiarity is the much wider Heads cut. I generally get about 350-400ml of Heads on this type of run before I get useable spirit but it depends on the type of wash the heads came from. The Heads you collect on this run is of no further use - dump it.

Finally you don't get tails on this run either. I generally collect down to 55% sometimes 50% depending on taste and smell and dump everything else.

The jars are a general guide which I think will help you starting off and as Jimmy said it'll become easier and clearer once you've done a few runs and with the Airstill it really is easy.

AM

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:11 pm

Re: Air still v t500

2012-07-02T13:57:01+00:00

Ive decided that Ive been far too premature in thinking about the T500, as my questions have clearly shown.

As long as things work with the the borrowed Air still i will get my own

Could someone double check my summary/trying to get my head round of Aidenmacs helpful post and see if Im far wrong with that?

As I'll pop and get myself some demijons and containers if Ive understood correctly

Statistics: Posted by shawry99 — Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:57 pm

Re: Air still v t500

2012-07-02T13:35:48+00:00

Oooh - couple of fallacies there with the T500..

Lets say all you want it an ok vodka and stuff to make essence flavoured drinks from then the turbo yeast / T500 / filter method will get you what you want very easily.

I've had 2 water problems with mine - it was difficult to find a fitting that allowed me to connect the needle valve to my shower hose (I run the T500 in the bathroom) but once I found the right connector in B&Q that was done.

Since then I've had one other issue with the water when the inlet hose was allowing a bit of air in - a small piece of PTFE tape sorted that (about 20 runs ago)

Perhaps I'm lucky with water pressure etc but even when the loo is flushed or the washing machine is running the most difference it makes is about .75 degree on the coolant water..

Setting the T500 up takes me about 10 mins, board over bath, put base on board, fill with wash, put lid on, attach inlet water to shower connector, check water flow, power on and then it's running.

I do multiple distills, compress heads, takes cuts etc etc and end up with an awesome end product.

I never go more than 20 paces from the T500 for the duration of the run (5 or so hours) - I'll watch a film, make cups of tea, do the washing up etc etc and keep an eye on it. The missus loves it as I tend to do a lot more around the house whilst it's running - all the little jobs you never find time for otherwise!!

The T500 is a very nice bit of kit that can take you from "quick quantity" to "awesome quality" - the only difference being the skills and knowledge of the person running it.

Statistics: Posted by MrCat — Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:35 pm

Re: Air still v t500

2012-07-02T10:18:16+00:00

shawry99 wrote:
I cant thank you guys enough for your patience, I know these questions have been answered time and time again, but for some reason I read them, then read some more stuff, then confuse myself, it will probably be much easier once I get my first wash/distill out of the way

Hey, we all started out somewhere! I remember when I first looked into all this stuff, it seemed horrendously complicated and there were different opinions and methods all over the place, that's why I started this site so people could get together and help each other out. And don't worry, once you've done it once or twice it all becomes much clearer.

Never be afraid to ask a stupid question, it's better than saying nothing and messing it up. On the other hand, don't be too disheartened if you get a stupid answer!

Statistics: Posted by Jimmy — Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:18 am

Re: Air still v t500

2012-07-02T10:09:19+00:00

Jimmy wrote:
Another point worth making is that it is ridiculously easy to do a run with an AirStill, setting up a T500 takes time and effort and you spend much more time with it. So, if you're the kind of person who will be able to spend a day doing a still run, T500 is a good bet. If you're rushed for time, having to work it in between other people using the kitchen/washing machine water supply, etc etc then an AirStill is likely to work out much more productive. Horses for courses!

thanks Jimmy,

The Airstill is likely to be my way forward then, as I can run it whilst doing other things, in between work and stuff, I dont often have full days to dedicate to something atm.

Statistics: Posted by shawry99 — Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:09 am

Re: Air still v t500

2012-07-02T10:06:50+00:00

aidanmac wrote:
Hi shawry99,

Summary:
1 X 100ml jar marked permanently for 50ml (Foreshots)
1 X 500ml jar marked permanently for 250ml (Heads)
3 X 500ml jars marked permanently for 250ml (Hearts)
4 X 250ml jars marked permanently for 100ml (End of Hearts/Start of Tails)

Thanks matey

Sorry to go through this yet again

So Stripping tun:

3 x demijons, take everything that the still produces.

Spirit run:

1 X 100ml jar marked permanently for 50ml (Foreshots)
1 X 500ml jar marked permanently for 250ml (Heads)
3 X 500ml jars marked permanently for 250ml (Hearts)
4 X 250ml jars marked permanently for 100ml (End of Hearts/Start of Tails)

Foreshots gets thrown away.

Heads is stored in a 4th demijon for a further spirit run? (you said stripping run) This is the stage that I collect enough to be able to dilute to 30% then run again?

Tails, as soon as you detect Tails, collect in a container down to 30% - this gets run as part of the next stripping run?

Question regarding heads run, does this become an ever decreasing circle, in that I throw away foreshots from it, save heads etc?

I cant thank you guys enough for your patience, I know these questions have been answered time and time again, but for some reason I read them, then read some more stuff, then confuse myself, it will probably be much easier once I get my first wash/distill out of the way

Statistics: Posted by shawry99 — Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:06 am

Re: Air still v t500

2012-07-02T10:04:29+00:00

Another point worth making is that it is ridiculously easy to do a run with an AirStill, setting up a T500 takes time and effort and you spend much more time with it. So, if you're the kind of person who will be able to spend a day doing a still run, T500 is a good bet. If you're rushed for time, having to work it in between other people using the kitchen/washing machine water supply, etc etc then an AirStill is likely to work out much more productive. Horses for courses!

Statistics: Posted by Jimmy — Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:04 am

Re: Air still v t500

2012-07-02T08:53:25+00:00

Hi shawry99,

First, forget the 'system' proposed by SS. It will produce alcohol above standard spirit strength which you can dilute to 40% but it will still have a lot of crap in it that you really don't want to drink because it will taste bloody awful. This is because the Airstill is a very simple but inefficient pot still. Having said that, if you double distill with the Airstill you'll produce a very good and palatable spirit.

On the question of whether it's necessary, or not, to double distill I suggest you do one double distillation and when the second run is finished open the Airstill and smell the slops left behind and realise that if you didn't double distill you'd have been drinking that shit!

Collection vessels can be as simple as recycled jam jars or almost any used glass container that was originally for food use.

In double distilling with the Airstill the first run is stripping the wash and you just collect everything until the ABV measures 30% on the alcometer either in a trial jar or a parrot, if you have one, and chuck all the collected spirit into a glass demijon. For a full 25lt wash you'll need up to three demijons to hold the stripped wash.

On the spirit run you'll need several glass containers. I found it helpful to permanently mark the containers for a specific volume and I used a small engraving tool for the purpose and remember, it doesn't have to be fancy!

The first one you'll need is a small glass jar with a capacity of about 100ml but marked for 50ml so you can take off the first 50ml as foreshots with ease.

When running my Airstill I take an arbitrary 250ml as heads so I have a 500ml jar with a mark for 250ml on it which makes it easy for me. (The 250 of Heads goes into another demijon where I store the Heads for use in a future Heads only run.)

For the Hearts I use three jars to collect lots of 250ml and I check the ABV regularly during the run as well as checking taste and smell to detect the start of the Tails. Next I use up to four jars of 250ml capacity to collect 100ml each at a time, again depending on the taste and smell - if I detect tails I stop collecting spirits and let the tails run into a jug until the ABV hits 30% again.

Summary:
1 X 100ml jar marked permanently for 50ml (Foreshots)
1 X 500ml jar marked permanently for 250ml (Heads)
3 X 500ml jars marked permanently for 250ml (Hearts)
4 X 250ml jars marked permanently for 100ml (End of Hearts/Start of Tails)

I used these preserve jars,

but you can use any sturdy glass jars as long as they're clean and undamaged - coffee jars, jam jars, etc.

Mozr's chart is a good visual guide for double distilling with an Airstill and what I've posted above is my adaptation of the same system for running my Airstill.

Ultimately, what you collect will depend on whats in your wash and your own taste.

If I could give you one piece of advice it would be to focus of keeping the best quality product from your Airstill rather than trying to get maximum quantity from each run. That way you'll be keeping the best for yourself and recycling the rest back into your next run so it's not lost, just needs more work.

Hope this helps

AM

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:53 am

Re: Air still v t500

2012-07-01T20:18:52+00:00

Wow getting a heavy post this
I agree with AM start with an airstill but please always chuck away the first 50ml or so foreshots the smell should tell you all you need to know
Ditto after about 650 ml collected quality goes down but you can chuck this in the next batch for a second run
The wee filter you get is pretty useless and slow so you can always get a few jars or demijohns to collect a good volume to run through a better filter
T 500 are not all bad they make a very clean spirit but a double distilis better
I'm moving to other stuff now but if you're not mega fussy the old T ain't too bad

Statistics: Posted by Admiral Toad — Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:18 pm