StillSmart

Re: All Grain Single Malt Rye Whisky

2013-10-19T13:43:46+00:00

The other bit that is important that the enzymes that work at their respective temperature rests become denatured as the temperature increases beyond their respective effectiveness range.

Statistics: Posted by Keystone — Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:43 pm

Re: All Grain Single Malt Rye Whisky

2013-10-19T09:29:02+00:00

With all grain it is quite easy for some people to get all technical and nerdy using language mere mortals cannot understand but I got most of what Keystone posted....most....

I'm definitely not nerdy nor a techie so I need to have things kept simple using clear instructions preferably in stages 1, 2, 3, etc.

In my workshop I have a folder of laminated pages that I hang on the wall, where I'm working, to spell out the stages so I don't miss anything.

One of those pages has the temperature breaks and rest times for mashing my barley because without it I would be constantly searching here and other sites for those temps and times.

I may not know the detail of why the mash has to be held at a particular temp for a specified time but I know how to follow orders and it works for me

@YHB; I'm pretty sure that it was Vulcanese not Klingon

AM

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:29 am

Re: All Grain Single Malt Rye Whisky

2013-10-19T04:49:15+00:00

Nice one Keystone,I may have to read this post a few more times to fully understand,but,it makes much sense already.

@ Brian
Were you put on this planet to raise the occasional smile,or have you just fallen into the roll?

Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:49 am

Re: All Grain Single Malt Rye Whisky

2013-10-19T02:13:44+00:00

Thanks - I can cancel the Klingon lessons now.

Despite my comments I enjoy all the posts on All Grain, and sometimes bits sink in.

I have convinced myself many times that I cannot go this route as I do not have the space to store the equipment let alone use it. But if I could somehow convince my wife that I could make the utility room better for her then maybe just maybe at some time in the distant future I could be in the market for a Whirlfloc tablet or two.

Toodlepip

Brian

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:13 am

Re: All Grain Single Malt Rye Whisky

2013-10-19T12:56:14+00:00

Ducking for cover, my last post reflected updates to the first post. I have noticed on other boards people using their Braumeisters to make unhopped beer for spirits.

And here is a picture of a malt pipe...

which makes nicely clear wort...

The mash process in the first post does work with three vessel or BIAB mash systems. My Braumeister is a splendidly glorified BIAB which makes beer making so much more enjoyable than using a couple of ten gallon round coolers to mash, lauter and sparge.

Any way, rye benefits from a multi-step mash because a rye mash can get gummed up if mashed like two-row malt such as Maris Otter. Here I go again, the beta-glucanase rest allows for beta-glucanase enzyme, present in the rye, to make the rye less gummy by breaking down the beta-glucans. Without this rest, you would otherwise be ready to bake rye bread.

The beta-amylase rest allows for the beta-amylase enzyme, present in the rye and activated by the brief protein rest, to convert the starch to sugar. There are actually two enzymes working at this temperature rest. The other one is alpha-amylase. They both work to convert starch to sugar. These enzymes complement each other on their respective roles in sugar conversion. Googling John Palmer will get deeper into the science of it. A temperature rest favoring the beta-amylase enzyme would result in a drier, more fermentable wort.

On the other hand, a few degrees higher to favor the alpha-amylase enzyme would result in a maltier, less fermentable wort. And this not our goal here.

Then, there is the business of the addition of the glucose-amylase enzyme. Its role is to convert dextrin to fermentable sugar. This enzyme represents the difference of having a fermentation resulting in a final gravity of 1.000 versus 1.014 which translates into additional alcohol.

As for the rice hulls, they are needed because rye does not have husks. Without the rice hulls, the grain bed may compact leading to a stuck sparge. The rice hulls should be first hydrated in hot water and then strained before being mixed onto the mash - no matter what system or approach.

Whirlfloc is an Irish Moss tablet which serves to assist in the filtration of undesirable solids precipitated by the boil from being racked into the primary fermenter. It should be added no sooner than five minutes before the end of the boil; otherwise, it gets denatured and loses its effectiveness. When making beer, home brewers would take a long handled spoon to stir the wort, after the wort has been chilled, to create a whirlpool which would cause all the solids to settle in the center of the pot.

As I was reviewing other resources to make sure the information above is correct, I learned that rye, once mashed, significantly increases the pH of the wort. This might explain the infection despite using k-meta. The problem was likely not using enough k-meta based on the pH reading. In other words, the pH should have been adjusted to a level where the k-meta would have been effective in killing off unwelcome bacteria.

If you made it this far, it's time for a drink or two ibuprofen.

Statistics: Posted by Keystone — Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:23 pm

Re: All Grain Single Malt Rye Whisky

2013-10-18T09:08:24+00:00

...and there was me thinking that I knew what I was doing

Come on K, put us Cretins out of our misery You never know, we might actually learn something useful, for a change.

I'm definitely up for learning this new language

AM

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:08 am

Re: All Grain Single Malt Rye Whisky

2013-10-18T00:31:30+00:00

We are obviously not keeping up!
"the beta mash step" I think I understood to beta amylase,the rest went in one eyeball and out of the other.
My bad.
Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:31 am

Re: All Grain Single Malt Rye Whisky

2013-10-17T20:10:00+00:00

And I thought it was just me!

Statistics: Posted by chill — Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:10 pm

Re: All Grain Single Malt Rye Whisky

2013-10-17T17:46:06+00:00

I regularly use Google translator to convert Chinese into something I understand but when I tried "the beta mash step" or "rice hulls by half" and "into the malt pipe when considering the flow" or even "whirlfloc tablet" let alone "separate hot break from the wort"
Google could not cope, so how do I stand a chance?

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: All Grain Single Malt Rye Whisky

2013-10-18T21:11:17+00:00

I resumed this process after making a beer with some great hops from NZ and Australia. I am returning to beer making fundamentals to achieve a better craft spirit.

I have increased the beta-amylase mash step to 90 minutes. I reduced the amount of rice hulls by half. If using a Braumeister, the hulls are added last into the malt pipe when considering the flow. I added a whirlfloc tablet in the last five minutes of the boil to help separate hot break from the wort to mitigate puking during a strip run.

Statistics: Posted by Keystone — Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: All Grain Single Malt Rye Whisky

2013-10-12T02:43:56+00:00

CC,

You raised some interesting points especially about the duty based reason regarding strip end points about which I did not know. As for letting down the low wines, I believe it was at AD where I learned that hydroseparation is best achieved at 27%.

Cheers,
KS

Statistics: Posted by Keystone — Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:43 am

Re: All Grain Single Malt Rye Whisky

2013-10-10T19:31:52+00:00

chill wrote:
I am not Frank, nor do I play him on the Internet. :-) I have read that whisky distillers (the big boys) do strip down to a fairly low ABV. I assume that is for flavour as the alcohol extracted at that point would not be very economical.

I don't think there is really that much flavour down there. I believe the reason they run it down to effectively zero, is even if a commercial outfit leaves a couple of % ABV in the boiler they would have to pay duty on any alcohol leaving the building. So they make sure its all in the spirit or feints receiver.

Another consideration could be making sure the final spirit still charge is sub 30% ABV to enable good hydroseparation, if you cut the strip at 20% I know my low wines would need to be watered down - the ABV of your feints would affect this too, but this is normally determined by your cut points.

Speaking to a distiller recently, after 3 runs or so, the cycle goes into equilibrium. So once you figure out your cut points, do it the same way every time, and you'll get a more consistent product.

I truly believe the way to exceptional brown spirits is having a methodology and sticking to it. Figuring out that methodology for your equipment and your wash, is the biggest challenge for the distiller.
I'm certainly not there by a long way, so what do I know

Statistics: Posted by Capt-Cudellez — Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:31 pm

Re: All Grain Single Malt Rye Whisky

2013-10-10T01:44:08+00:00

Thanks Frank and not Frank!

Statistics: Posted by Keystone — Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:44 am

Re: All Grain Single Malt Rye Whisky

2013-10-09T09:06:16+00:00

Well I am frank (just ask anyone who knows me )

@Keystone
rye may work differently to other grains re collection, but I doubt it really.

So (as per Chucks comment) check this out regarding lowwine collection range down to VERY low abv%; its from my fave Scotchmaking region and I reckon they're good at it too....so a good place to start perhaps re your q?

http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/IslayFacts/Islay_Distilleries_Factfiles.htm

Statistics: Posted by Frank — Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:06 am

Re: All Grain Single Malt Rye Whisky

2013-10-09T03:36:57+00:00

I am not Frank, nor do I play him on the Internet. :-) I have read that whisky distillers (the big boys) do strip down to a fairly low ABV. I assume that is for flavour as the alcohol extracted at that point would not be very economical.

Chuck

Statistics: Posted by chill — Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:36 am