StillSmart

Re: Anyone built something similar to this?

2012-04-18T20:45:42+00:00

If you are right, and no aluminium is carried over from the boiler to the product, then yes it would not matter.

I do not know if it is true or not. I am a beginner to this hobby and have much research left to do.

In the meantime, until I read a definitive report that convinces me that someone has proven there is no carry over, I would rather play safe.

The wash would slowly corrode the boiler in either case.

Statistics: Posted by ant — Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:45 pm

Re: Anyone built something similar to this?

2012-04-18T14:52:12+00:00

I've had a think about this, and although I take your point about ingesting aluminium and aluminium sulphate begin slightly soluble in alcohol, as long as its just the boiler you should be alright, it would all be left behind with the slops.

I put all sorts of things in my washes that I wouldn't want to ingest in any quantities (fertilisers, Epsom salts etc.), but at the temperatures we are dealing with they will be left behind.

So I would avoid aluminium in the still head, condenser or collection vessel, but would not be put off using it as a boiler.

CC

Statistics: Posted by Capt-Cudellez — Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:52 pm

Re: Anyone built something similar to this?

2012-04-18T06:43:12+00:00

"I avoid all sources of aluminium if I can.I never use aluminium pans or utensils"

Do you really mean that? How do you survive without a Rohgan Josh from the Star Of Asia on a Friday night?. Only joking - I take your point.

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:43 am

Re: Anyone built something similar to this?

2012-04-17T20:10:55+00:00

Yes Brian it is me. Thank you for the welcome. You are right of course and I avoid all sources of aluminium if I can. I never use aluminium pans or utensils. The point of the example was that the aluminium overdose caused an exaggerated Alzheimer type reaction which supports the link that has been proposed by other sources. Many potential sources will not transfer aluminium because they are not acid and do not carry the aluminium into the food chain. Wash is significantly acidic and will carry significant amounts of aluminium as a result. I just think better safe than sorry. A cheap stainless serving tray from a charity shop would make a nice lid for a Burco I think.

Statistics: Posted by ant — Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:10 pm

Re: Anyone built something similar to this?

2012-04-17T19:45:03+00:00

Ant,

Welcome at last, I am assuming you are the same Ant from Lancashire that I met in HD.

Since this thread was started I have read many aurguments for and against Aluminium.

You state that "The point is that poisoning of this type is slow and cumulative".

By nature of the topic, you are commenting on the additional amount of Aluminium entering the body using spirits as a carrier, I would suggest that you compare the amount of spirits you consume to the amount of food and drink that has been prepared using Aluminium utensils - I think the resultant figure would be very small indeed.

Add that to the amount of Aluminium that is deliberatly used for the following Health & hygeine Applications:

•Antacids
•Buffered Aspirin
•Vaccines
•Vaginal Douches
•Hemorrhoid Medications
•Anti-Diarrhea Medications
•Astringents
•Nasal Sprays
•Baby Powder
•Dentures
•Lipsticks
•Talcum Powder

And Aluminum that is commonly added to:

•Baking Powder
•Self-Rising Flour
•Table Salt
•Pickling Salt
•Processed Cheese
•Cake Mix

OK I googled that - but it is a simple demonstration that, you can find any answer you want on Google for any argument or against the same aurgument.

Yes a masif accidental overdose of just about anything will probably kill you, but is that a valid reason for me not to use the Aluminium lid on my stainless steel boiler?

Probably not.

If I ever get round to using it in anger and I can "taste" the Aluminium then I will change it the next day and dump the offending spirits.

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:45 pm

Re: Anyone built something similar to this?

2012-04-17T18:22:25+00:00

Welcome Ant - that case if I'm not mistaken was 20 tonnes of aluminium sulphate was dumped by accident into the water supply, this was not an erosion \ decomposition type incident.

Also I found this on the Alzheimers socity website

There is circumstantial evidence linking this metal with Alzheimer's disease, but no causal relationship has yet been proved. As evidence for other causes continues to grow, a possible link with aluminium seems increasingly unlikely

Full text is here http://alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=99

Can you let us know if you are interested in distilling, or did you find your way here by goggling something else? Just an interesting first post.

CC

Statistics: Posted by Capt-Cudellez — Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:22 pm

Re: Anyone built something similar to this?

2012-04-17T18:03:14+00:00

The Guardian recently reported on the autopsy of a woman who died after an aluminium sulphate overdose released by accident into the water supply. Her brain was massively crowded with the plaques associated with Alzheimer disease and it was concluded that this lead to her death. There have been links between aluminium leached into acid food like tomatoes and Alzheimers reported in New Scientist for a number of years. Wash/mash is acidic, it will leach aluminium.

You can take your choice but as a personal opinion informed only by science reports I have come across over the years I would not risk it myself.

The point is that poisoning of this type is slow and cumulative, it will vary between individuals and it will likely go unreported as having a link to aluminium use; everyday NHS doctors don't really dig that deep into cause once they have a diagnosis they can treat.

You might die of other causes before it becomes a problem but the fact some people use aluminium and haven't died yet does not prove it is actually safe. Just that if it kills you it does it slowly which would be what you would expect from the reports that have been made.

Statistics: Posted by ant — Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:03 pm

Re: Anyone built something similar to this?

2012-03-22T17:23:46+00:00

Glad to see that you have started.

Did you pack the coil with salt? 8mm is still a good size for a coil even though it is elliptical. If you get a steady flow through it, it should not be a problem.

Since we last spoke I stumbled on a 3kW 6 Gallon Stainless Burco boiler for 25 pounds. The lid needs a bit of work but nothing that is insurmountable.

Looking forward to seeing your pictures.

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:23 pm

Re: Anyone built something similar to this?

2012-03-22T15:38:43+00:00

Hi All, been away for a while mainly due to work and a broken wrist hindering progress. Was chatting with Brian and he inspired me to start collecting bits regardless, which is what I did.
My bok will be all ready to start when the blasted pot comes off, although in a pain killer induced moment of bravado I started winding the coil and kinked and flattened my way through a couple of meters of 8mm. I have ended up with a reasonable looking coil (8mm single with cold finger) but it flattened considerably and the flow rate has reduced. I'll start another thread to update you all on my build and share my learning as I go. I've been taking pictures so when I get some time will get a good first post started.

Statistics: Posted by Still Not There Yet — Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:38 pm

Re: Anyone built something similar to this?

2011-12-28T14:16:38+00:00

Hi,

haven't looked at this for a week or so, been too busy enjoying the fruits of my labours.
With regards to having thought much about the alu pot recently I have. I'm heading down south in a few days and will be passing through Leicester. In the Belgrave Road area there are countless shops selling these stockpots and in the past I've definitely seen SS pots as well as alu so I'm going to see how they compare price and quality wise. A good quality 33l pressure cooker is top of my list, preferably SS but we'll see.
I'm not against using alu after reading quite a bit about it. I did not look for opinion from people in this hobby but looked at medical sites and Alzheimer charities etc. They all claim there is no relationship.
I think if you announce something is dangerous there will be a number of people who would rather avoid it no matter what contradictory eveidence comes out. That said, I'll still go for SS if possible and a part of that decision is the potential for 'new' evidence to come out finally saying alu is dangerous - I think it's human nature!
I shall update you once the boiler has been found, I'm still considering that green wort boiler though, pricey but it should save a lot of time.

Statistics: Posted by Still Not There Yet — Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:16 pm

Re: Anyone built something similar to this?

2011-12-27T07:36:33+00:00

[quote ="Capt-Cudellez"]Can't claim any experiance with aluminium boilers, but I have drank out of an Alu mug and don't care for the taste. Can't say if this would affect the spirit, but the price saving does make it a tempting option.

That connector is great, if going down the stockpot route, have you given any thought to how you are going to secure the lid? [/quote]

Cap'n - I do not want to be accussed of hi-jacking "Still Not There Yet"'s thread so I will answer it in - Brian's Bokakob, tomorrow.

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:36 am

Re: Anyone built something similar to this?

2011-12-26T09:25:47+00:00

Can't claim any experiance with aluminium boilers, but I have drank out of an Alu mug and don't care for the taste. Can't say if this would affect the spirit, but the price saving does make it a tempting option.

That connector is great, if going down the stockpot route, have you given any thought to how you are going to secure the lid?
I have seen bulldog clips used for pot still conversions, but a long column is a different story. When the boiler heats up, you will get column ossilation, the column will act like a big leaver. If using a light clip, you may want to secure the collumn to a wall or roof if that is easily done in your stilling area.

@mr cat: those condencer managed stills are really cool, with a 2" BSP female connection on the bottom you could connect it straight onto the t500 boiler using the male fitting that holds the standard column on.
I did this recently with my extended pot riser, I was worried about the seal as the female connector isn't flared to take an O ring. But I cut a gasket from PTFE sheet and got a good seal.
Also thinking about putting a female half socket inside an inverted expandable triclamp fitting. This would give a flat surface to take a gasket, fits the round indent in the t500 boiler lid perfectly, and would give the option of using the collumn on a keg also. Just need to check the fittings will actually fit in side one another.

Statistics: Posted by Capt-Cudellez — Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:25 am

Re: Anyone built something similar to this?

2011-12-26T04:50:51+00:00

Maybe I have changed my mind.

Coincidently, there has just been a disscussion on the Yahoo distilling group about the use of Aluminium stock pots for boilers. A result of which is that, I am having a rethink about using one.

Everyone has an opinion but it is trying to establish what their opininion is based on that is the difficult part. Sometimes opinions are based on proven facts and experience, whilst others on hunches and hearsay.

I followed the thread on Yahoo and did a bit more reading and now it is safe to say that I am back to sitting on the fence. If money was no object, I would use Stainless. If it was easier to work with, I would use Stainless.

Safety wise? - I have convinced myself that I would drink the spirits made in an aluminium boiler. Taste wise? - there are a lot more people using aluminium pressure cookers and stockpots than there are people claiming that the spirits produced in them taste metallic.

Have you given them any more thought?

Does anyone else have any experience of Aluminium boilers?

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:50 am

Re: Anyone built something similar to this?

2011-12-20T07:19:03+00:00

Yeah they're definitely aluminium. Bugger!

Statistics: Posted by Still Not There Yet — Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:19 am

Re: Anyone built something similar to this?

2011-12-20T06:00:37+00:00

I would like to bet that the stock pots that you have been drooling over in the Asian supermarkets are Aluminium not Stainless Steel.

I also would like to use these because they are easier to work on than stainless, but I have been talked out of using them by the clever people who claim that;

1) Aluminium has been linked to Alzeimers desease
2) Alcohol will pit (dissolve) Aluminium causing it to weaken and perhaps increase the chances of 1)
3)The Aluminium gives the distillate a metallic taste.

Having said all of that there are many people who have been using converted Aluminium pressure cookers for years, the choice is yours.

I am trying to stick with either Copper or Stainless where ever possible.

If I am wrong and they are stainless then please let me know and I will be on the next train down to get one.

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:00 am