StillSmart

Re: About to upset the purists

2017-02-16T21:04:18+00:00

Still maturing wrote:
I would like to add a good bit of sweetness to my whisky. I know bourbon gets its sweetness from the corn, but I like the taste of a good single malt. If I was to throw a spanner in the works and move into a hybrid malt/corn mash, would this give me a sweeter end product? Or would it change the structure too much?
A single malt with a touch of bourbon, without adding additional additives would be my goal >:D
Thanks

Of course oak gives colour, vanilla, sugars, and also carbon cleaning. But you are right, maize after 3years on oak has only sweetness, none of the complexity added by rye and barley. Wheat, barley or rye in turn has less carbs or sugars than maize.

Starch is extracted from barley at a much lower temperature than from corn. Corn has far more carbs, would be too gelatinous (stodgy porridge) so the maize is kibbled instead to keep it porous but needs boiled to extract. Corn may also be fermented on grain, but not with barley or any soft grain.
Barley adjunct and barley malt are not rested at the same temperatures either. But I can't see there is a difference in taste between 100% malt and 200% barley activated by some % sprouted barley. Malted barley has more than enough enzymes to convert ten times as much adjunct grain starch fully to sugar. Doesn't matter whether it's corn, rye, wheat, or barley adjunct.

Have a gander at the buffalo trace site. They mash each grain separately, then blend the run-offs in the fermenter. They then sparge into their next mash, not to fermentation

So
Heat each grain, including the malt, to its own separate gel temp, It may help yo trownin some sacrificial malt to maize for a brief saccharification rest on the way up to make it thinner. Then blend all the run offs into your fermenter.
They say that maize loses all its flavours after 3 years ageing. All that's left is sweetness.

Statistics: Posted by Casper — Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:04 pm

Re: About to upset the purists

2017-02-16T21:15:44+00:00

Easydrinker wrote:
Casper wrote:Our sweetest Irish whiskey, Jameson's, uses maize spirit which is refluxed.. Tullamore Dew is another example.

I don't believe that to be true, visit the Jameson website and see what they say.

Robert.

Why don't you? I read it on the back of a bottle and on their website. It even tells you the fermentation temperature and period... they don't do secondary fermentation it's a 3-4 day ferment at 24°C. A barley potstill is then blended with a grain (aka corn) refluxed at 96% after they are both aged

Statistics: Posted by Casper — Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:24 pm

Re: About to upset the purists

2017-02-16T06:13:26+00:00

Not quite but its always on the list!

Statistics: Posted by Mash — Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:13 am

Re: About to upset the purists

2017-02-16T02:25:47+00:00

They both do the same tasks basically. There are design differences in operation between them.
GF can be used as a still; to that end I would imagine the BM could be too and perhaps that is what Mash has recently been alluding to in his latest lot of mischief .

Statistics: Posted by packapoo — Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:25 am

Re: About to upset the purists

2017-02-16T00:23:31+00:00

packapoo wrote:
BM - Braumeister
GF - Grainfather

i looked at the BM and GF and i take it the BM is for mashing and fermenting and the GF for the distilling of wash??

Statistics: Posted by tasleBHC — Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:23 am

Re: About to upset the purists

2017-02-15T03:23:43+00:00

BM - Braumeister
GF - Grainfather

Statistics: Posted by packapoo — Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:23 am

Re: About to upset the purists

2017-02-15T00:26:38+00:00

whats a `BM ? i am slightly conusfed with all the terminology.. newb and that.. doh

I don't think feints are used for Bourbon style Whisky, they recycle backset from the boiler into the next mash to make it a sour mash.

i read this in th book about sour mash and moonshine distilling it takes 25% backwash to make a sour mash JD and thats a standard practise. i dont think any short cut corners will ever achieve that subtlety of which mr Daniels got from a time honoured practice.. i as a newb could be wrong tho

Statistics: Posted by tasleBHC — Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:26 am

Re: About to upset the purists

2017-02-13T15:54:21+00:00

Mash wrote:
I have a massive mod I am going to do on my BM to make the job a whole lot easier then. Boom. Whiskey.

Do tell more.
I have just adapted my stovetop too. A 3" Y welded into the lid with a 45° and 90° welded to one arm. Removeable screw on lid to short arm, reducer to Liebig on the other. All SS. Works a treat

Statistics: Posted by Casper — Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:54 pm

Re: About to upset the purists

2017-02-13T05:45:44+00:00

Anavrin wrote:
You should seriously consider making a UJSM, fresh off the Still it is a sweet whisky, I liked it so much I have kept some to drink unaged before putting the rest on oak.

Apparently over time it does loose its corn flavour so if unaged it needs drinking, it's essentially what Tim and Tickle are making in the moonshiners TV program, however with UJSM you recycle backset to make it a sour mash.

this advice is the standard for creating a sour mash whiskey..I read that adding backwash 25% is part of the sour mash process gaining a consistent produce.. I could be wrong but I'm sure it the right process

Statistics: Posted by tasleBHC — Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:45 am

Re: About to upset the purists

2017-02-13T01:56:06+00:00

Thunderbird wrote:
A"single malt" is just that in my book; basically a whisky made from malted barley by a single distillery. That's it. Start messing with this and you don't have single malt anymore. Start adding corn and rye to the mash and you end up with Jack Daniel's, which I love, and yes, if I had to describe it compared to a single malt scotch (which I also love), I'd say there was a hint of sweetness as you say, BUT..........

If you check out the section about barrels on the Jack Daniel's website it explains that the charring of the white oak barrels releases sugars which are taken up by the whiskey. When the sugars have been used up the barrels are shipped to Scotland to make scotch. So fundamentally, it's the wood which imparts the sweetness and not the mash.

that is an impressive bit of knowledge about JD fella.. i didnt know that about the barrels.. i knew the barrel impart some flavour but not that the old JD barrels end up n bonny scotland

Statistics: Posted by tasleBHC — Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:56 am

Re: About to upset the purists

2017-02-13T00:00:32+00:00

Casper wrote:
Our sweetest Irish whiskey, Jameson's, uses maize spirit which is refluxed to 95+% and blended with potstill malt. Tullamore Dew is another example.

I don't believe that to be true, visit the Jameson website and see what they say.

Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:00 am

Re: About to upset the purists

2017-02-12T01:03:32+00:00

Great posts from Casper.

If I wanted to sweeten whiskey and upset purists at the same time, I'd add a quarter a teaspoon of honey and a couple of drops of glycerine per litre.

Statistics: Posted by Curmudgeon — Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:03 am

Re: About to upset the purists

2017-02-11T21:25:43+00:00

Hi Casper and Welcome

I assume you mean charcoal filtering before aging on oak, same as JD is charcoal filtered through charcoal from maple wood, Bacardi is a little different, it's aged on oak then carbon filtered to remove the colour, making it white again.

I think what Robert meant above was if your filtering to take something away it goes against the hole idea of collecting and using feints, which is done to add more flavour.

I don't think feints are used for Bourbon style Whisky, they recycle backset from the boiler into the next mash to make it a sour mash.

So what equipment do you have, you said you made some columns, pics are always welcome here :-)

Statistics: Posted by Anavrin — Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:25 pm

Re: About to upset the purists

2017-02-11T20:24:37+00:00

you are not ever going to convince me to carbon filter an all grain spirit before aging on Oak. There are people that would rip your head off for making such a statement![
/quote]

Please forgive me for not introducing myself. Is there a thread I should go to?

I have been reading forums and building columns for about a year and a half now, since we retired. I made some undrinkable spirits at first, and if this hobby means anything (given the cost) I have to make it better than bought stuff. I read that Bacardi and Jack Daniels use a 10ft carbon filter strapped to the still. I read that oak barrels are charred to increase what wood does to white dog. Takes out the bad and at the same time infuses the good. Magic! But it takes years. What is charred wood? What is charcoal? Yes it adds a burnt smokey flavour that I recognise in JD and Jameson whiskey. Not unlike the lowland scotch. So I tried it with a bag of activated charcoal given to me by a friend who supplies water treatment systems to hospitals and breweries, and got a really good vodka. The bad notes in my rum were removed leaving a sweeter rum. Ageing now takes a few months not years.
Cooking the white dog with charred oak chunks now takes a few weeks to get what took months.

My own copy of the Scotch Malt distillers methods, using a feints receiver
If I wanted a neutral, I would save myself some effort.

Please expand, I don't understand this

Statistics: Posted by Casper — Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: About to upset the purists

2017-02-10T23:28:02+00:00

Welcome Casper.
What a first post!
You obviously have some experience.
However, you are not ever going to convince me to carbon filter an all grain spirit before aging on Oak.

You said,

In fact, all spirits are dramatically improved by trickling thru a column of charcoal.

There are people that would rip your head off for making such a statement!

If it works for you then great: I know what works for me.

My own copy of the Scotch Malt distillers methods, using a feints receiver

If I wanted a neutral, I would save myself some effort.

Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:28 pm