StillSmart

Re: Anti Foam Agent

2015-01-22T16:16:26+00:00

Not sure about all that science
remember when making a wash to ferment for our purposes from all grain we only mash cool aerate then pitch the Yeast and don't bother with the boiling part as in beer making
we also generally aim for a higher ABV than normal beer
the boiling occurs when the fermented out wash or ale is put in the boiler for distillation

Statistics: Posted by Admiral Toad — Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Anti Foam Agent

2015-01-22T08:59:47+00:00

Thanks for the welcome guys.

"long time beer brewer" Wine and beer is where I started. I have also been distiller for some time.

Foam in AG wash might be explainable...

Protein is a foam producer. All firefighting agencies have and probably still do use protein foams (in addition to AFFF).

Boiling a beer mash is accepted to coagulate proteins.
If I put them together IMO we might have a cause for foam over?
No boil means the proteins are intact and heightens the chance of a foam over?

Sugar is a carbohydrate so sugar wash would not do it - which seems to be the case.

I always boil for 15mins and don't get pukes....? BUT and heres the rub boiling is said to destroy the enzymes which are attributed to give whiskey its subtle flavours?

Statistics: Posted by Mash — Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:59 am

Re: Anti Foam Agent

2015-01-22T06:14:02+00:00

Never had a sugar type wash foam or puke but grain washes can and do I guess that's why low wine stills in distilleries have viewing glasses in the necks of the stills
I just listen at the end of the condenser for bubbling noises and lower power to suit
I do put a small knob of butter in the wash to lessen the foaming as well

Statistics: Posted by Admiral Toad — Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:14 am

Re: Anti Foam Agent

2015-01-22T01:31:56+00:00

I have never had a boil over and have never used an agent to prevent same. I would look into why there is a boil over and work from that end. I cant believe all the additives people use. Maybe they have something to do with why there is a boil over and maybe why carbon filtering is necessary. Carbon filtering is something else I don't use.

Statistics: Posted by RumJohn — Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:31 am

Re: Anti Foam Agent

2015-01-22T00:09:01+00:00

Welcome mashy,firstly what is this strange final boil that you speak of,I'm guessing something from a long time beer brewer? I have never taken a brew to an actual boil.
With distillation,you go beyond where a brewer might,and guidelines change.
A distiller is seeking a mash or ferment of alcohol that can be distilled,to bring in or leave out certain flavours.Little thought of microbes.
It is quite a game.
I have never used an anti-foam agent.
I have always used boil pieces.
Originally I used ceramic Rashig rings,I quickly moved on to short lengths,1-3cm of copper pipe.
A clean settled wash certainly helps,but on occasion I run a real pea souper without problems.
My own theory is that anything bouncing around on the floor of your stills' boiler will help prevent boil-overs,and I expect copper ones to improve the product.
But that is my opinion,so take it with a pinch of salt.
If you stay around,as I hope that you will,you will discover that there are various opinions here from certain posters,like myself,which may help you.
Or you may help us,that's the way this cookie crumbles.

Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:09 am

Re: Anti Foam Agent

2015-01-21T20:53:17+00:00

As I am not making beer, I never boil my wash. Mash and pitch!

Statistics: Posted by chill — Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:53 pm

Re: Anti Foam Agent

2015-01-21T19:08:23+00:00

Never meant to imply that anti foam not ever required, but I have never needed it.

Presumably this is a protein foam that is generated .. sooooo.. is the wash prepared with or without a final boil ?

Statistics: Posted by Mash — Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Anti Foam Agent

2015-01-21T17:28:58+00:00

http://www.cheaphottubchemicals.com/Pag ... foamer.htm This type of simethicone defoamer will work also...

Statistics: Posted by FullySilenced — Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:28 pm

Re: Anti Foam Agent

2015-01-21T17:17:33+00:00

This is the recommended method for preventing surge boiling in an Airstill but never known it to prevent foaming on an all grain stripping run.

However, with bigger stills this is not really feasible and low power or low volume or distiller's/other conditioner is often required with foam prone washes...but not if your wash is properly cleared

Where's my manners, Welcome aboard Mashy

AM

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: Anti Foam Agent

2015-01-21T16:58:43+00:00

I had these sorts of issues after I had run the Airstill for a few hundred litres. I solved it with 2 things.

A new silicone ring to make sure the fit was snug - I was amazed how much 'snugness' the old ring had lost.

AND more importantly I think this is super heating spontaneously releasing. So an agitator was required. After a few experiments I have found the perfect solution - about 40 pence in 1p's in the bottom.

On boil the still now rattles away all the time. Problem has gone.

Got the idea from a glass 'milk saver' my mother had years ago.

Hope this helps !!

Cheers

Statistics: Posted by Mash — Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:58 pm

Re: Anti Foam Agent

2014-08-17T01:41:11+00:00

In my limited experience of AGB,+ 1 with aidanmac,it can be lively stuff!
Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:41 am

Re: Anti Foam Agent

2014-08-16T19:02:15+00:00

Absolutely! Grain wash, in particular, foams up like mad and you need to either keep the power low or use an anti foam agent like Distillers Conditioner.

AM

Statistics: Posted by Almanac — Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:02 pm

Re: Anti Foam Agent

2014-08-16T17:42:31+00:00

Think I had my first potential puke last night, I had 25 litres of wash made from 6kg malted barley and 3kg sugar, I could hear some popping going on and some liquid was pushing its way out trough the seal on my boiler lid !!

Luckily the boiler is twice the size of the wash and I had over a meter of column before my take off so it never made it up and all the way through my condenser, I turned down the power and got away with it.

I'm I correct in suggesting the reason is because it was a grain wash and they are more susceptible to boil overs?

Statistics: Posted by Anavrin — Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:42 pm

Re: Anti Foam Agent

2014-08-16T16:51:54+00:00

Well, the Still Spirits distillers conditioner, for anti-foaming etc, is polyethylene glycol a.k.a. PEG.

Whether you could get that in small enough quantities ? as it's 2 to 3mls per 25 litres of wash.......

But I'm thinking that there's likely no middle ground. Either a homebrew sized quantity, or straight into the small/medium sized commercial brewery amounts......

Statistics: Posted by Phantom — Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: Anti Foam Agent

2014-07-25T00:33:50+00:00

My "redneck" solution,- Tall column for your strips,defy the bugger to try and boil over.
Worked so far,on some mean and lively washes.
I don't fancy conditioner,oil or butter in my still,and await my comuppence!
Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:33 am