StillSmart

Re: Moved Alan Manning still discussion

2018-03-26T08:34:26+00:00

I keep threatening to make a 'AM still walk through' but two children under 5 always seem to selfishly trump anything I want to do. I haven't even made vodka for months.

I'll at least take some photos or a video the next time I run.

Regards, Marc.

Statistics: Posted by Duffer26 — Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:34 am

Re: Moved Alan Manning still discussion

2018-03-26T04:57:06+00:00

Just an opinion Duffer, if it works for you then there is no problem. There are always multiple ways to do anything. Just look at all the combinations of LM, VM and CM reflux columns. There has been a huge amount of development in the last 20 years.

VikingEyes asked a question that I tried to answer. Perhaps you should describe your running method with the AM still for his benefit, to help him make up his mind. Do you do strip and spirit runs, how many times, boiler ABV charges - that sort of thing.

I have made vodka on a pot still but it took multiple runs - it was faster and used less power on a packed column. I ended up though using that packed column just to make neutral instead, and that took more than 1 run.

As for the air cooled option, eccentric possibly, but I have used it myself in the past, and still have a 1 inch spiral still that will probably get incorporated into my next pot still build.

There are no wrong methods - some are just a bit more convenient than others.

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:57 am

Re: Moved Alan Manning still discussion

2018-03-25T23:00:34+00:00

Duffer mate, chill a little.
No one is calling you a liar.
People coming back with advise and opinions is just that.

The reason a forum exists? Methinks?

I know that Myles thinks my continued use of various air cooled stills is bonkers and/or eccentric.
It doesn't put the two of us at loggerheads, we just respect each others (and others) approaches to distilling.

This site was founded for the basic Air Still user, which for many is all that is needed.

Read my signature.

Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:00 pm

Re: Moved Alan Manning still discussion

2018-03-25T18:24:33+00:00

I haven't read PDA1, but it either can't be relied on or the next paragraph makes me a liar. You decide.

The AM still works. It produces 96% vodka with no off flavours, admittedly, with some work. I use 6mm raschig rings up to the top pipe and then copper mesh to the top. I use a 1500w hot plate as a heat source.

I'm happy to answer any questions.

Marc.

Statistics: Posted by Duffer26 — Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:24 pm

Re: Moved Alan Manning still discussion

2018-03-25T17:55:38+00:00

OK it is a 28 mm column packed with ceramic beads which I will be generous with and equate to 6 mm Raschig rings (RR=6)

At 800 mm packed length your maximum practical power will be 400 watts. It doesn`t matter if you reflux ratio is 6 or 60 you will not get higher than 92%.

Drop your packing to 300 mm (is it as much as that?) and you drop to 82%

All this assumes that your reflux condenser (the cooling tubes) is capable of extracting enough energy to produce the required volume of reflux condensate.

1000w generates 52 ml/minute. At a reflux ratio of 6 this is product at 7.4 ml per minute. Reduce this to 400w and that is 3 ml per minute.

In comparison the PDA1 with an equally short 12 inch (but wider diameter) mesh packed (RR=4) column will produce flavoured product at 35 to 60 ml per minute (on 1500 watts) and vodka at 7.5 ml per minute (on 750 watts) Fast enough to dilute to one bottle of vodka per hour.

There are significant advantages to be had - even on short columns - of increasing the diameter.

I am just saying that you could make something much better for the same price. Throw out the packing and it will make a not bad pot still. It is expensive though for what you are getting.

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:55 pm

Re: for sale/wanted section

2018-03-25T10:46:39+00:00

Myles wrote:
Cooling the bottom of a packed section is a bad idea and it disrupts the thermal gradient.
The entire principle is to establish a gradient with hot at the boiler end and cooler at the top end. Also, the cross tube reflux condenser is the least effective of any of the reflux condenser designs.

I did tell myself not to get involved with this thread....but I do have a strong feeling to do so now.
I've only been doing this for what? 6 maybe 7 years or so. In that time I've learnt a lot about stilling, I've built a couple of columns, a thumper, run a number of washes.
Turned out what I and others think is good likker, flavoured rums that Mrs Ice & I prefer, Vodka etc etc.

I agree with Myles about the lower cooling pipe, why would you want to cool the vapour at that stage when you want the vapour to rise through whatever packing you use, then when it hits the top cold finger or whatever you have fitted, cool and run back down????
That is what we want from our still, this is what we are aiming for.....

Ok, we all had to start somewhere with this hobby of ours, but what really piss's me off is when guys with the experience try to point those that have not, the better way of doing something.

I found a Youtube channel for Alan Manning,.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw7Unu1uyFg

Draw your own conclusions.....that's my 2 cents worth.

Statistics: Posted by Icefever — Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:46 am

Re: Moved Alan Manning still discussion

2018-03-25T09:48:41+00:00

Myles. Touche.

Mash, yes, the AS is proof that you can make good vodka or gin with almost any contraption.

Statistics: Posted by Duffer26 — Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:48 am

Re: Moved Alan Manning still discussion

2018-03-25T07:36:37+00:00

Duffer26 wrote:
BUT CAN YOU DO IT FOR LESS THAN £115????

Regards, Marc.

I know I am biased. But I personally rank the AS higher, especially at that volume. I also like the fact I can leave it to get on. So is slower an issue?

Faster or slower, quality comes from practise.

Preowned easily less than £100.

Statistics: Posted by Mash — Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:36 am

Re: Moved Alan Manning still discussion

2018-03-25T06:23:47+00:00

Duffer26 wrote:
BUT CAN YOU DO IT FOR LESS THAN £115????
Regards, Marc.

YES. How about a 54 mm stainless scrubber packed column with 48 inches of packing for less than £100?

1.5 m of 54 mm tube (JTM) £37.50
6 packets of Tesco spontex stainless scrubbers £10.20
1 straight 54 mm coupler (JTM) £4.60
10 m of 6 mm tube £15.20
1 54/22 mm reducer £5.76
1 needle valve 1/4" BSP FF £5.12
2 6 mm to 1/4" couplers £3.53
1 SD Brass 2" ferrule £10.00
1 2" clamp £7.00

All you need is a bit of solder, time and winding a coil condenser is not hard - even if I don`t do them any more.

Just cut 10 inches of tube off the 1.5 m length and rejoin it with the straight coupling after first inserting the cut down reducer as a liquid trap.

Drill through the straight adaptor above the reducer to fit a product output and the valve.

If you want to spend a little bit more just use a 54/54/15 T as the LM output port - it is a bit easier. You just insert the cut down reducer into the bottom of the T before inserting the lower bit of tube.

You don`t need to solder in the coil like I did, you can just drop it into the top open end of the copper tube.

Solder the ferrule onto the bottom - if you are using a keg boiler. Then pack the bottom section with the scrubbers. You can spend a bit more by adding joints in the column or having the head removable, but you don`t need to. A basic packed column can be very simple, cheap, and efficient.

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:23 am

Re: Moved Alan Manning still discussion

2018-03-24T21:01:00+00:00

Yes Myles, of course you can do ABSOLUTELY better or faster with a superior design or a more efficient still.

BUT CAN YOU DO IT FOR LESS THAN £115????

I make perfectly good vodka that all my friends cant distinguish the difference between it, and Smirnoff.

I'm by no means a connoisseur nor a master distiller. But I have a logical and scientific mind. If you have a vat, a tube, and a condenser, you can make vodka.

Regards, Marc.

Statistics: Posted by Duffer26 — Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: Moved Alan Manning still discussion

2018-03-24T19:06:29+00:00

As a continuation.
GIN.
Make a clean base spirit first, Any way you like - but it should be a finished product. No heads and tails - they should already be removed.

On a gin flavour run there are no heads and tails cuts because your base spirit is pure clean hearts.

You do make a cut - but it is for botanical oils not heads.

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:06 pm

Re: Moved Alan Manning still discussion

2018-03-24T18:28:10+00:00

don`t get me wrong. Have you seen the PDA1?

You CAN off course make any product on any still - it is just that some are better/faster than others.

All I was trying (perhaps not well) to say was that there are better options available.

10 years ago the recommended vodka still was 48" of 2" tube packed with stainless scrubbers. These days I would say to go for 36" of 3" tube packed with SPP.

Technology moves on - and that design is really behind modern standards. Will it work? Yes - but nowhere near as efficiently as some of the more recent designs.

Can you d better - ABSOLUTELY.

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:28 pm

Re: Moved Alan Manning still discussion

2018-03-24T16:34:23+00:00

I have the AM still and it makes good vodka through reflux. I haven't made gin yet.

Has anybody else actually had any experience with this still?

Marc.

Statistics: Posted by Duffer26 — Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:34 pm

Re: Moved Alan Manning still discussion

2018-03-24T15:47:37+00:00

Thanks for moving my post to the appropriate section.

I *wish* that i'd read your comments about the still design sooner, as I've just dropped £115 on one of AM's stills. I'll let you know how I get on, once y sugar wash has finished and I perform a strip run.

I'm only a home dabbler, never sell, never tell. I just begrudge paying £15-30 for a bottle of decent gin. It's gotta be better than the air still that i'm using right now. So long as i get the top temp before the condensation section to 80 degree, I should be OK, right?

*neverously*

Right????

Statistics: Posted by VikingEyes — Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:47 pm

Re: Moved Alan Manning still discussion

2018-03-24T06:28:38+00:00

Well done. I tried and failed.

Statistics: Posted by Mash — Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:28 am