StillSmart

Re: Double distilliation, really?

2012-10-19T15:27:03+00:00

diego321 wrote:
Thanks for your insightful info guys, , capt, you mentioned of collecting the heads (and ditching the tails) of the spirit run ( the one after the first 3 runs), do you also collect the heads of the first 3 runs? Wouldnt those undesireable tastes be gone after collecting the heads once?, or you do it twice to be sure?

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On the initial runs I don't make any cut, everything is collected and added to the boiler for the spirit run. I only cut on the spirit run.
These initial runs referred to as stripping runs, could be done on a pot still to speed the whole thing up.

You don't need to do 3 runs before the spirit run, it just makes sense to me to spend your time doing one careful spirit run with lots of alcohol available.

diego321 wrote:
And YHB, that sounds like a good idea, do you do this every time? Or once you become good enaugh you will be able to tell the heads from the heart and the tails, by just tasting them as they come out of the still? (of course diluting them...)

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YHB is traveling just now so not sure if he will pick this up. My experience is you can make a general cut by taste, but the airing does let you do this more easily.

If cutting off the output (using water and a spoon) I can get to a point where I no longer taste heads, I'll collect a few small jars beyond this point before switching to the larger containers. I find the next day that at least the first jar will have a hint of heads that I was unable to taste the day before.

I would suggest collecting everything in smaller containers until you get a bit of experience running the still, as even mid hearts if the temp gets away from you you will only ruin a jar rather than a jug full. CM stills can be a bit tricker to run that some other types, and there are some good threads such as using pressure reducing valves to make it easier to control.

Statistics: Posted by Capt-Cudellez — Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:27 pm

Re: Double distilliation, really?

2012-10-19T13:54:54+00:00

Thanks for your insightful info guys, , capt, you mentioned of collecting the heads (and ditching the tails) of the spirit run ( the one after the first 3 runs), do you also collect the heads of the first 3 runs? Wouldnt those undesireable tastes be gone after collecting the heads once?, or you do it twice to be sure?

And YHB, that sounds like a good idea, do you do this every time? Or once you become good enaugh you will be able to tell the heads from the heart and the tails, by just tasting them as they come out of the still? (of course diluting them...)

And lee, yes, you should, its on the airstill manual...

Statistics: Posted by diego321 — Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:54 pm

Re: Double distilliation, really?

2012-10-19T12:15:53+00:00

Should you discard the first 50ml when using an air still?

Statistics: Posted by LeeH — Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:15 pm

Re: Double distilliation, really?

2012-10-17T17:49:51+00:00

Diego321

Welcome to the forum.

If you are not convinced then try this and prove it to yourself.

With your first single distillation run and after you have discarded the first 50ml collect the rest of the distillate in 200ml samples (or Fractions) do this for the entire run that the still instructions and the sales literature tell you to keep and drink.

When you have finished the run leave the fractions overnight.

The following day, water the first fraction down to 40% and taste it. This is what you are being told to keep, this will not taste very good, burn your mouth, and give you a headache.

Then water the last fraction down to 40% and taste it. You are also being told to keep and drink this. This is not my drink of choice it will taste awful and as the Capt’n says will probably give you an upset stomach.

Lastly water a fraction from the middle of the run down to 40% and taste it…………………?

If you do not find any difference between the fractions (or cuts) you can always mix them all together and drink it just like the instructions tell you. Somehow I do not think you will..

Let us know how you get on.

Toodlepip.

Statistics: Posted by YHB — Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Double distilliation, really?

2012-10-17T15:49:58+00:00

That is still spirits sales pitch, but like most sales pitches it’s slightly misleading. The T500 when run as they suggest, will produce 93% ABV spirit and collect 95% of the alcohol that is in the boiler. As for a still “not producing” heads and tails, that’s right, but no still produces these, these are already in the wash, and are by-products of the fermentation process.
There are ways with different stills to compress these fractions so the contaminate less of the product (giving a larger hearts cut) but this is only limiting the contamination, the proportion of heads and tails cannot be changed, as its part of the wash we put in the boiler, and its down to how your wash fermented.
The T500 has no such trick for removing these or keeping them out of the product, what SS process does is you collect all of these and then filter them so you can no longer taste or smell them, but you are still consuming them, and IMHO this is not a good idea.

In the heads there are things like acetone (nail polish remover) and ethyl acetate, and down in the tails there are things that can give you the shits. You really want to be keeping these out of your drink, rather than disguising the nasty tastes and smells to let to stomach drinking them.

Double distilling does 2 things, Firstly it produces a cleaner product, as you have left a lot of the undesirable things in the boiler the first time, so watering this down and redistilling will produce a more neutral drink.
If you start with a flavorful wash, this will carry over into the spirit, so by removing some of this flavour and watering down (making less flavorful) then redistilling will make a more neutral drink.

Secondly it lets you do 2 or 3 first distillations, then you can add the output of all of these to the boiler, meaning there will be 3 times the amount of alcohol to collect on the spirit run. You should always water the contents of the boiler down to less than 40% for safety reasons; I’d suggest less than 30% for a better product.

From the spirit run, you will still collect heads, hearts and tails that you need to separate. I keep the heads separate and run these when I have enough to fill the boiler at 30%ABV, you then recover most of this alcohol as the actual heads are tiny, they just contaminate a chunk of the good alcohol, so redistilling this lets you separate it further. Some other just chuck the heads in with the next distillation to achieve much the same thing.

I don’t collect tails, as they are flavourful and don’t really redistill well when you are after a neutral product, so I just switch off and leave them in the boiler if you run the still well this is not a lot of alcohol to sacrifice. Other do it differently though.

I realise this is a chunk of info, so if you don't understand anything, just ask. We are the friendly distillation site after all

Statistics: Posted by Capt-Cudellez — Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:49 pm

Double distilliation, really?

2012-10-17T13:03:11+00:00

Hey, i just recently bought the t500, the instructions says that the equipment produces NO heads or tails apart from the 50mls at the beggining which u have to ditch out, the rest is high quality.

So, my question is, why double distilling? I understand is to obtain a higher purity in the alcohol obtained, but given that the t500 produces it at 95% ABV, can u get it better than that by double distilling?

And, i had read many threads about collecting heads and tails and use them on future runs, but given that the only the first 50mls are ditched and the rest is top quality without tails (given that alcohol stop flowing after it deplets in the boiler, preventing the rest of the wash to come thru the alcohol outlet, or in other words "tails"), how do you explain collecting heads and tails will make a better spirit (the heart)?

Statistics: Posted by diego321 — Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:03 pm