StillSmart

Re: PH buffers

2016-04-21T19:18:48+00:00

That is why I use it - slow/stuck ferments, including the famous Lentil Wash. I am not surprised about the wine as there is loads of nutrition in that, the same for beer. Compared to wine and beer, what we ferment as washes is relatively nutrition poor and likely lacks the broad range of nutrients in a wine or beer. Turbo yeasts prove that this can be provided by careful selection of the nutrients.

Statistics: Posted by chill — Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:18 pm

Re: PH buffers

2016-04-21T17:01:42+00:00

There has to be something to this. I aim for between 3.2 & 3.4 for red wine and quite frankly it goes like a train. 90% complete in 8-9 days.

In kale I have had no issue, indeed in anything I have no issue. The only reason for my test, was to see if there was a time gain to be had?

Statistics: Posted by Mash — Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:01 pm

Re: PH buffers

2016-04-21T14:49:50+00:00

I started using buffers as the pH of my washes was dropping to 3.5 or below and resulting in a very, very slow ferment.

Statistics: Posted by chill — Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: PH buffers

2016-04-21T06:38:56+00:00

Just thought I would add this in for interest. It is actually taken from a Treatise to do with bread making, but is still of interest.

Yeast exhibits a considerable tolerance to extremes of pH, being able to maintain an active fermentation in a 5% glucose solution in the pH range of 2.4 to 7.4, but ceasing activity at pH 2.0 or pH 8.0. For optimum results, good practice dictates that the pH of the fermenting medium be maintained within the range of about 4.0 to 6. A drop of more than 50% in fermentative activity has been observed at pH 3.5. More gradual declines in yeast activity were encountered at higher pH levels, with measurable effects showing up at pH values over 6.0.

The explanation for the yeast's ability to maintain a relatively constant activity over a 100-fold change in hydrogen ion concentration (pH 4 to 6) is found in the fact that the pH of the cell interior of the yeast remains quite constant at about pH 5.8, regardless of any relatively wide pH variations in the fermenting medium. The enzymes involved in fermentation thus operate in an optimum pH environment within the yeast cell that is largely unaffected by external changes in pH.

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:38 am

Re: PH buffers

2016-04-21T16:56:42+00:00

chill wrote:
I have had a few washes that produced a LOT of acid (due to poor nutrition is my guess) and the pH drifted down to about 4.5.

Chuck

he he

Pleased you said that - I have long suspected the same.

Statistics: Posted by Mash — Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:16 am

Re: PH buffers

2016-04-21T06:15:03+00:00

Thanks for that.

My understanding was that 5 was a bit on the high side (for distilling) due to the issues with ammonia from surplus nitrogen.

I usually adjust it to 4.5 and test with pH 3.8 to 5.5 test strips from the home brew shop.
It typically ends up more acid but I have never had a fermentation fail because it got too acidic, so have never bothered with buffers before.

Is this use of buffers to maintain pH more of a flavour issue, than a fermentation issue? More important for beer?

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:15 am

Re: PH buffers

2016-04-21T05:17:58+00:00

Hi Myles,

Within reason, it does not matter what the pH is before. The purpose of the buffer to move the pH and lock it at a specific value. I usually aim for 5+/-. Different buffer formulas (ratio of acid to base) will lock in different pH values. Most of the time it finishes at what the buffer moved it to at the beginning of fermentation. I have had a few washes that produced a LOT of acid (due to poor nutrition is my guess) and the pH drifted down to about 4.5.

Chuck

Statistics: Posted by chill — Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:17 am

Re: PH buffers

2016-04-21T04:34:45+00:00

Hi everyone, what I really want to know, and couldn't see on here isn't about flavour, it is about pH.

what pH did you start and end the fermentation? What did it stabilise at, and does it matter what the pH is before you put the buffer in?

I haven't ever used them myself, so don't know.

Statistics: Posted by Myles — Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:34 am

Re: PH buffers

2016-04-20T18:49:17+00:00

Mash wrote:
Mine has just finished (with buffers) in just over two weeks appears to be about the same.

Next up, I'm going to run them a little hotter. 25C instead of 19C

Quick update. PH buffers waste of time imo. Made no difference. Probably a slightly off taste but very slight.

However 28c & 100g done in 7 days and v dry. Well done Robert!

Statistics: Posted by Mash — Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:49 pm

Re: PH buffers

2016-03-08T01:39:40+00:00

Let me say again,
There is "NO ONE TRUE WAY"
If it works for you, share it.
If it doesn't, then maybe share that too.
And if anyone gives you grief, send them in my direction

Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:39 am

Re: PH buffers

2016-03-07T19:38:40+00:00

Yes, I think I will give it a try with my next wash...

Statistics: Posted by MrHodge — Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:38 pm

Re: PH buffers

2016-03-07T02:03:57+00:00

I am going to disagree with you here, purely because for the last two or three years everything has been loose lidded and not air-locked.
The fermenting buckets may still be throwing off the odd big burpy bubble as I rack them off, but I have a system that works for me.
If you haven't tried,maybe give it a go.

Robert.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:03 am

Re: PH buffers

2016-03-06T19:09:52+00:00

Thanks for the info Icefever - that makes sense (both the oxygen and the burping). The Ian Smiley book quote says

…During the lag time the yeast is consuming the dissolved oxygen in the substrate and is multiplying very rapidly…

, so if the yeast gets the oxygen from the substrate I guess it shouldn’t matter that I didn’t leave the lid off for a while after adding the yeast.

I also made a discovery on Friday - my wash was bubbling away through the airlock nicely, I took the lid off to measure the gravity and then replaced the lid - the airlock did not restart bubbling. After a bit of investigation, I found that the lid did not seal perfectly at one position and after sorting it out, the bubbling continued. So I am now thinking that maybe it never stopped in the first place - the gas was just finding the easiest way out through the leaky lid.

On the question of airlock or loose lid - I quite like the visual sign of the activity in the airlock so I know it going at a glance - Assuming no leaks of course

Statistics: Posted by MrHodge — Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:09 pm

Re: PH buffers

2016-03-04T02:36:48+00:00

I do all my fermenting and stilling indoors, let's say above 20°C.

Statistics: Posted by Easydrinker — Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:36 am

Re: PH buffers

2016-03-03T22:38:48+00:00

.. Now at .993 and pretty much done - 5 days total.

Statistics: Posted by hampk — Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:38 pm