StillSmart

do you HAVE TO throw away the 1st 50ml- or 100ml when using the smart still

2010-09-08T00:26:24+00:00

Another use for the foreshots is to sterilise stuff you use in fermenting -- stirrers, hydrometers, funnels, etc. Quick wipe over and leave to evaporate. Can also be used as fuel for a Trangia or similar camping stove.

Statistics: Posted by phlogiston — Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:26 am

do you HAVE TO throw away the 1st 50ml- or 100ml when using the smart still

2010-09-05T01:29:01+00:00

Hi all, I\'m a newbie to distilling. Is there a ratio that can be invoked to chuck away the foreshots/heads?
I ask as I am using a 3 litre kettle to feed a condensor until I learn more and 100-200mls seems a lot to me to chuck away from each fill of the kettle.

Statistics: Posted by H2SO4.5 — Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:29 am

do you HAVE TO throw away the 1st 50ml- or 100ml when using the smart still

2010-09-02T01:23:50+00:00

cheers scrappy,ta jimmy.
Yes with you on leaving the slanging matches to the other forums.haha

Statistics: Posted by marc83 — Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:23 am

do you HAVE TO throw away the 1st 50ml- or 100ml when using the smart still

2010-09-01T19:14:55+00:00

I see your point Andy, but I have 3 Stills, lol, Inc. a fully customised Reflux Still I built from a modded design i found online, An SS Air still, and a Mini scaled down ver. of my big still.

Which I use marbles in as the Packaging material ??

Hence my question about preferred Packaging.

For those of you that are interested in I have the results of the Methanol Test from a lab.

The 1st 50ml kept from one wash:-

Methanol content, less than 0.5% (CH3OH)

Ethanol content 78% (C2H5OH)

Rest 21.5% Water (H2O) made up remainder plus a few trace amounts of fluoride (F), mineral salts, calcium carbonate (CACO3), magnesium (M) and a tiny amount of carbon (C). The guy who ran the test tried to explain other stuff, but he lost me lol, I\'ll stick to engineering. :-)
20ml was roughly the same but with 3% Methanol!!

So looks like there is indeed Methanol in the 1st few drips.
I will do the same again when I do a big wash in my big still !!.

& Let everybody know the results

Again Cheers all, (If any advice needed on electrical control circuits- accurate heating controls and PID based systems let me know- I will try to assist as best I can)

All my fermentation is kept to within 1 Deg of what I set it to (as long as ambient temperature is not higher- where ice is thrown in to the equation lol)

Also Beer/Ale/Lager/Stout conditioning the same within 1 Deg of what I tell it to stay at for however long is needed.

Scrappybill.

Marc83- No hard feelings!- clean slate !!

Just taken delivery of some new essenceâ€™s and different yeast etc.- so i will have a play later !!- will let you know results when done etc.

Sorry Jimmy- was pissed off by Marc93 Response- reacted badly!!
Looks like different yeast\'s- even water, sugars etc. all have an effect of the methanol amounts made !- so as most say- throwing away 20-50ml when making 700-800ml form 4000ml\'s is much of a big deal.

I just liked to know exactly what was what !! call it professional curiosity lol

Statistics: Posted by scrappybill — Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:14 pm

do you HAVE TO throw away the 1st 50ml- or 100ml when using the smart still

2010-09-01T15:00:40+00:00

Bluecap has it right - save it in a jar, then open it a day later and decide for yourself whether you want it in your drink.
Also, a gentle reminder - these are friendly forums, so let\'s keep them that way everyone! Marc83 posted out of concern on an issue of health, but perhaps came across as being a bit harsh - no harm done, shake hands and leave it there chaps - I\'m keen to avoid the slanging matches that go on elsewhere. Ta!

Statistics: Posted by Jimmy — Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:00 pm

do you HAVE TO throw away the 1st 50ml- or 100ml when using the smart still

2010-09-01T12:46:59+00:00

Scrappy - a few links for you. Sorry I didn\'t have time to post this last night
A nice link on Rashig rings and surface area http://www.raschig-rings.com/column/column_filling.html
I was reading that last week and noticed from the table that the ceramic saddles supplied with the SS super reflux should have a greater surface area than the rashig rings that everyone seems to replace them with (but I could be measuring the ceramic saddles incorrectly)
A link onto homedistillers explaingin HETP and packing material http://homedistiller.org/refluxdesign.htm#hetp
I was looking at using my PC to control the cooling water - thread here http://www.stillsmart.co.uk/forum/topic.php?id=321&page=2 - it would have been easy enough as the software is all there and just needs a little tweaking but I decided not to. I generally stay pretty close during a run as I like to seperate my ouput (heads/hearts/tails) using 500ml jars so as I need to be there for that I\'m there to tweak the water flow if needed. I\'ve found that once the column is stable the water doesn\'t need much doing to it for the majority of the run.

Statistics: Posted by MrCat — Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:46 pm

do you HAVE TO throw away the 1st 50ml- or 100ml when using the smart still

2010-09-01T09:20:09+00:00

I am a little lost.

scrappybill, you ask about the smart still (air still) but then your asking and talking about column packing (an air still has no column)

Please clarify.

Statistics: Posted by Andy — Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:20 am

do you HAVE TO throw away the 1st 50ml- or 100ml when using the smart still

2010-09-01T06:07:35+00:00

I only ever chucked 20 ml when using the smart still but if you are worried chuck 20ml save the next 20ml and collect your good stuff, then compare the last 20ml. If you ever wander if the first 20ml is ok pour it in a stainless steel sink and have a good whiff itâ€™s rotten.
One tip I was given about packing the condenser was â€œif you can breathe through it then so can your still, if you canâ€™t then the packings to tightâ€

Statistics: Posted by bluecap — Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:07 am

do you HAVE TO throw away the 1st 50ml- or 100ml when using the smart still

2010-09-01T03:40:41+00:00

Cheers Mr Cat. (I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO USE MARBLES FOR THAT REASON as well lol)

Anyone interesting in getting marbles cheap check below addy www.rapidonline.com/searchresults.aspx? ... kw=marbles Â£1.50/100

I\'m getting around 85% with my still using marbles,

But i have just modded it for better more accurate flow control for the cooling.

I will give it a go next weekend.

I am also going to integrate a level sensor or maybe a flow meter so after a pre-set (Adjustable) value is met in ml\'s or L\'s it shuts off, rather than relay on a timer. For remote operation. (The end result is measured in volume)

I can control the temp of the wash as it is boiled up, and the condensing chamber where the distillate vapours through! Donâ€™t think there is anything on the market that does this automatically (Cheap at least) - even the new SS turbo 500 is a manual temp adjustment for the cooling!

Cheers boys again for all your help.

Ronbo! - the packaging in a reflux still needs to be a closely packed -large surface area, that is thermally stable (Does not react to heat (or cold when cleaning) and does not emit any smells or dodgy taste into the spirit, Copper wool- like wire wool can be used, or bits of small dia copper pipe cut up, stainless steel scrubber pads etc. etc., but it obviously still need to be able to allow the flow of the steam/vapours of the distillate. Marbles are all of the above! Hence my reason for trying them.

Cheap, and simple to clean

Statistics: Posted by scrappybill — Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:40 am

do you HAVE TO throw away the 1st 50ml- or 100ml when using the smart still

2010-09-01T03:35:12+00:00

Yes do try post that question over there at HD,believe me,the whole thread will turn into a hate on all Turbo yeasts grrrrr.

Sorry scrappy if you think i came across as \"childish\",what we are doing here is dangerous if not done correctly,you can make yourself and others sick if the rules arent adhered to.

Surely you know that the foreshots must be discarded,whether it be a larger still or not,depending on the size of the wash some is always collected.yeah sure 20ml or so from a airstill and up to 100ml+ from larger stills.I collect and put aside approx 200ml from all my washes first,be it turbo or not.

You ask in your original post that you need to know for certain,well err on the side of caution.

I by no means think i am a know all,i started out in this hobby following the rules,and still do.but he...take it as it comes.

Statistics: Posted by marc83 — Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:35 am

do you HAVE TO throw away the 1st 50ml- or 100ml when using the smart still

2010-09-01T03:02:17+00:00

Marbles as column packing - makes sense actually - should have quite a good surface area, minimal contact/surface overlay. And pretty easy to get different sizes pretty cheaply.
Not a bad idea
Me ? I lost mine after drinking the first 50ml...

Statistics: Posted by MrCat — Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:02 am

do you HAVE TO throw away the 1st 50ml- or 100ml when using the smart still

2010-09-01T02:59:19+00:00

\"Currently using marbles\"
Right! So what does that mean?
Ronbo.

Statistics: Posted by Ronbo — Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:59 am

do you HAVE TO throw away the 1st 50ml- or 100ml when using the smart still

2010-09-01T02:56:36+00:00

If you think marc83 gave you a hard time try and post the same question on homedistiller LOL
Ok - bottom line is that in the tests Still Spirits have done there might not have been any methanol (etc) in the output. But there are too many variables in the wash such as impurities in the sugar / dextrose / water / fermenting vessels etc - maybe even some nasties in the tube you keep your hydrometer in that then transfer into the wash when you take the OG.
The last wash I did was a by the numbers triple distilled wash with dextrose and carbon that should have been nigh on perfect but I got nearly a litre of tainted output out first not to mention the 200ml of foreshots I dumped.
Just because it hasn\'t happened to you so far doesn\'t mean it won\'t. And when you are making over 10 times as much why worry about a few ml?
As far as packing goes you can get rashig rings from here
However looking at the Gerber site it looks like the ceramic saddles that are supplied by Still Spirits have more surface area.. You can get them here
Currenlty tescos have stainlness steel pot scrubbers at Â£1.20 for 6
I haven\'t found any copper pan scrubbers in the UK but may have found some copper mesh that might do the same job.
Enjoy

Statistics: Posted by MrCat — Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:56 am

do you HAVE TO throw away the 1st 50ml- or 100ml when using the smart still

2010-09-01T02:26:31+00:00

Cheers everybody.

Especially marc83 for being childish.

oooo look at me Iâ€™m a know all, bla bla bla

I thought thatâ€™s what these forums are designed for- to broaden people knowledge, not slag off other members saying they were shaking their head in disbelieve!

I'll take some into a lab at work tomorrow and have it analysed.

I will let you know the results in next day or so.

I have just done 2 runs of a 23% alcotec with carbon and using dex.

I kept the 1st 50ml of the 1st run and the 1st 20ml of the second, as i guessed that the 100ml rule was for bigger stills, (Many thanks Ronbo for your input, makes perfect sense)

Any Brits know where I can get hold of some thermally stable rings/packaging or suitable packaging for my reflux still, Currently using marbles as they are thermally stable and give off no smells- or strange tastes.

What is the ultimate reflux packaging? (No need for another childish reply , I have studied forums and everyone has a preference, copper pipe bits, copper scrubbers, stainless steel scrubbers, smashed/broken side windows of cars- etc.)

My still is my own design, copied & modified from similar ones on the net.

With very good temperature controls etc. (Running through a s.s.r. based set up and p.i.d. controller) (I am a know all in electrical engineering & design lol!)

After all I am an Electrical Engineer and designer

Statistics: Posted by scrappybill — Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:26 am

do you HAVE TO throw away the 1st 50ml- or 100ml when using the smart still

2010-09-01T01:47:32+00:00

Hey Scrappy!

An air still only distills 4 Litres at a time. The 100mL discard rule applies to those using large 20+ Litre reflux stills.

Us -- air still users -- only need to discard about 15 to 20 mL each time, if using a pure sugar wash!

Yeah, some yeasts may generate more nasties than others, but;

20mL is about half a Sherry glass, you can afford to give that much to the devil! i.e. down the drain.
Ronbo.

Statistics: Posted by Ronbo — Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:47 am