Sorry for newbie question but

[guest5234]

Do I need to to a "spirit run" after I have put my wash through the turbo 500 or can I just water down to 40% and drink? would putting it through a second at 40% produce a better neutral spirit? sorry for the question that might sound obvious to most.

[Anavrin]

Hi Guest

Depends on how you have collected your spirit, if you have simply collected everything, which I believe is the way with the instructions etc, then what you have will be pretty much undrinkable, if you have collected in fractions (many smaller jars) you can make cuts to find the cleanest alcohol in your collected jars, and from a single run direct from a wash, you might find something worth drinking.

It's accepted good practice to first "Strip" your wash, this involves running your wash through a still with no packing, only boil it and condense the output until you have collect the majority of the alcohol, this is something the T500 isn't particularly suited for as it has some plastic parts, ideally this would be done using a pot still, in the case of the T500, the alembic dome and condenser does this but it's expensive and if you prepared to have a go at soldering some copper, you could make one at a fraction of the cost.

From a 25lt wash at 10% ABV, you would collect about 5 litres at and average of 50% ish if you stripped until the output alc was down to 30%

You would then need to repeat this process once more to have enough alcohol to use the T500 column as it should be used, if you stripped 2 washes you might get 10 litres at 50%, this would be watered down to 30% for the spirit run by adding 7 litres of water.

You could then run the T500 on a spirit run, collecting in fractions like I said above, from those jars you will need to make cuts by identifying the cleanest hearts portion of the spirit, this can then be watered to 40% and filtered to get a clean and safe, drinking spirit.

Sorry if you think I'm going on a bit, but I've tried to be as brief as I can believe it or not!

[Capt-Cudellez]

I agree with the above - as you dont have a pot still, it will take a bit longer.

Run quickly from the wash, water down to 30% re-run collecting the middle cut as drinkable spirit.

Chuck the heads and tails in with the next run.

as a rule of thumb I'd expect the first 15% of the total volume of alcohol available to be heads, and about the same 15% to be tails at the end of the run with a decent column.
You'll be able to make this cut by smell/taste eventually, but it is really tricky when starting out.

To make the slow spirit run more rewarding, I strip 2x washes, water down and run this on the column, that way you have twice the alcohol available.

[Anavrin]

Just spotted you other post about T500 no tails, that's bolocks I'm afraid.

Every wash or stripped spirit contains heads hearts and tails, I'll give a nugget of info that might help with making cuts, it should at least get you a half decent hearts first time around.

It's is to know exactly how much alcohol is in your still for the spirit run, it comes out over 90% and as a general rule of thumb, (for me anayway) if you have 20litres of 30% strip in your boiler for a spirit run, the actual amount of alcohol in there is 6.66 litres, expect the first 30% (2litres) to be heads, the next 50% to be hearts (3.3 litres), once you have collected this much shut the still down, no point even collecting the last 20%, it's tails and not worth your time and effort collecting.

You can collect it if you want, and of course collect in small jars, air it and taste it to find the cut between heads and hearts, but roughly with a sugar wash I find 30% heads, next 50% hearts and the last 20% tails.

Just seen the Captains post above, and I must say at this point that I do make very stringent hearts cuts, you may well get less heads but for me I always find I can detect some signs of heads in the first 30%

[guest5234]

Thanks guys, I have been making all grain beer for 10 years and have got pretty good at it...this is a whole new ball game and a big learning curve, thanks again.
Just to make sure I understand, run the first quite fast at say 60c?collect the hearts, then water down to say 40% distill again slower at say 55c and then do cuts keeping the hearts and saving the heads for next time?

[Capt-Cudellez]

Yip you got it, you can run even faster than that on the first pass, the condenser really is a bit pitiful on the T500, so just run as fast as you can but are still condensing everything.

Its been a long time since I ran a t500 - so maybe the 30% heads cut Anavrin suggested is more likely.
On the spirit run (second distillation), after warm up, leave it in full reflux (turn the water up to the point where there is no output). Leave it like this for 30 mins, this will help concentrate the heads into a smaller portion.

have fun !

[guest5234]

Thanks guys, aint going to use turbo yeast anymore and just follow the knowledge of you guys,,,,cheers ne last question after the first fast run is it worth putting the heads and tails as well as the hearts into the second slower distill and then cutting.

[Seagull]

I don't make cuts in the first, fast stripping run. I just collect everything in one demijohn.

It's only on the second, slow spirit run where I make heads, hearts and tails cuts (and throw out the very first 100ml that comes out).

I would then keep the heads and tails and add them to a future slow spirit run.

[Anavrin]

Personally I don't recycle heads and I don't collect tails for neutral spirit from sugar washes, maybe I should try and recycle heads, they are in fact mostly good clean hearts but the esters you can detect like Ethel Acetate, are so easily detected, it only takes a few parts per million to be present in order for you to be able to smell and taste them.

I might try an all heads run when I have enough to see what I can get and how much hearts I can get out of it.

[Easydrinker]

Trying to answer the original post;
Save everything from the first (strip)and run down to whatever % you choose, 20% is as low as most go on an unflavoured wash.
Dilute to sub 30% and run, collecting in small amounts in seperate jars, bottles whatever.
The next day decide where your heads, hearts and tails are.

I used to fight with this guy, but he wrote and left us this;
download/file.php?id=326
for which I and many are grateful.

It is not gospel, but it works well enough, if you cannot use it to sort your cuts, then find a different hobby,


I don't collect spirit run tails from my new still reflux runs, as it conveniently won't produce them unless I turn the power up, quite a bit.
I do save the small quantities of heads, air them and do heads runs, producing 50% hearts and 50% fire lighting fluid.

Robert.

[Curmudgeon]

I am shocked that an Irish man and a Scottish man argued about how many e's belong in whiskey.

At some stage next year, once I am 1 in this hobby, I will produce a proper guide that says half of "us" are pompous, opinionated, up our own asses type fools, half of us are drunken derelicts who would drink any old crap and the other half of us is right.

Clearly the middle half are the hearts types here who blend and get on with the heads and tails, even if not the foreshotters on HD.

[Easydrinker]