Not sure what to do...

[Maker]

So, slightly convoluted post but bear with me, as per previous threads my home made still.



25L boiler with 2" column, 16mm arm (32mm condenser) running on gas.
still finding my feet with this game so would apreciate feedback.
I have processed the standard 25l kale wash (1.060) and only managed to strip 2.5L @ 50%, watered it down to 30% and ran in reflux as follows,

First 50mm = waste
All glasses are 100mm
1 = 92%
2 = 91%
3 = 90% tweaked temp setting.
4 = 92%
5 = 91%
6 = 91%
7 = 91%
8 = 91%
9 = 91% tweaked temp setting.
10 = 92%
11 = 90%
12 = 89%
13 = 89% tweaked temp setting.
14 = 85%
15 = 80%
16 = 60%
Took 4 hours to run..

So I have only made 1.6l of alcohol and lose some to heads and tails in the morning.
I am happy on one hand that I am making quite strong product but dissapointed with the amount and how long it takes.

So questions as follows,
Is 1.6L as retarded as it sounds from starting off with 25L at over 9%?
1.6L in 4 hours?
Whats wrong with my still, why does it go so slow?
Am I better to alter the still I have or start with a new design, I have looked at many posts and Anarvin has a lovely looking machine I think I could replicate quite cheaply.
Don't know which way to turn, need to keep costs down but I can't spend such an amount of time making so little product....help!

[Easydrinker]

OK mate.
I have just looked at your numbers and if they are correct, it is not your still, but the brew that failed you.
Volume of alcohol in ml x percentage alcohol/1000.
1.6 lits is good from that!
Being contentious here, try a different wash.
My Lentil wash more than doubles your return.
A Turbo would go further.
Basically I am saying your wash should have finished much lower.
Don't blame the still.
Try some different washes.
HTH

Robert.

Edit: Assuming that your still doesn't leak?

[Mash]

Agreed, that does sound low.
I think your still works well and you should be pleased.
But let's not confuse nutriention with fermentation management.

Did you test the brew with a hydrometer when it was "done"? What was the reading?

Two identical fermentations will not run the same. They're a living thing and go there own way. There is still a lot about fermentation we do not fully understand. It is not a mechanical operation you turn the handle and wash comes out. Have you brewed before?

[H12rpo]

Presumably the 1060 reading was the starting SG?
What was the finishing Gravity number?

1060 start if it fermented out to 1000 would give you 9.6% abv wash
Potential 2.4 litres at 100% however if you get 90% product then the potential volume is 2.2 litres

You got 1.6 litres of 87.8 abv

If you stopped at 60% you obviously left some alcohol in the pot so I reckon you did alright

4 hours though does seem about an hour too long ......I suggest you may have been refluxing a bit too much?? Just a guess though not knowing your still .

[Maker]

The wash finished at, if my memory serves well, 0.990.

Maybe my condenser is so poor that it has escaped in vapour or is it still in the wash, is there a way to measure the alcohol in a wash?
There is best part of a litre of booze missing here... I understand there will always be a loss but losing a litre to get only 1.6 seems hard to swallow.

I have some vodka star stripped and ready to go, 8 litres of 59% so we will see what that makes.

I wonder if my still would be more suited to refluxing a wash without stripping as it is sooo slow, is there a reason you guys dont do this?

[Myles]

Maybe my condenser is so poor that it has escaped in vapour or is it still in the wash, is there a way to measure the alcohol in a wash?

It could be that you lost vapour due to an inefficient condenser. However, my first response on reading this post was that you stopped too soon and left alcohol in the boiler.

is there a way to measure the alcohol in a wash?

Yes. You can estimate it using the initial and final gravities. Or you can do a test run and strip 1 litre of wash in a glass lab still to accurately measure the total alcohol in the wash.

I wonder if my still would be more suited to refluxing a wash without stripping as it is sooo slow, is there a reason you guys dont do this?

I recommend that you do not do this. Boiler charge on a pot still should be about 28% but on a reflux still I use 40%. Some folks with jacketed boilers might even use 45%.

Refluxing wash is even slower because the boiler charge is lower ABV.

You also need to consider the total amount of alcohol in the boiler and column. When stable the column contains some of the alcohol in liquid form spread over the packing. There has to be enough alcohol left in the boiler after the column has stabilised to enable the column to function.

[Mash]

.. is there a way to measure the alcohol in a wash?

You can measure what's left in the boiler in the usual way, with a refractometer or hydrometer once it had cooled down.

But this is not necessarily alcohol you will want!

[Easydrinker]

The wash finished at, if my memory serves well, 0.990.

Maybe my condenser is so poor that it has escaped in vapour or is it still in the wash, is there a way to measure the alcohol in a wash?
There is best part of a litre of booze missing here... I understand there will always be a loss but losing a litre to get only 1.6 seems hard to swallow.

Dude, I am going jump your side of the fence here, sometimes I also seem to lose alcohol units on a spirit run, and never know if I should blame vapour or leaks.
I routinely measure Lees/Dunder for %.
I don't think that my still leaks.



I wonder if my still would be more suited to refluxing a wash without stripping as it is sooo slow, is there a reason you guys dont do this?

And now I am going to jump to the other side of the fence
What Mash and Myles said.
+1

I tried to construct this post in two colours, to be clear in what I wished to convey.
Goggle seems to not want to go that way.
Read it a few times to try and understand what I wish to say.

Tonight Goggle is a piece of shit.


Robert.

[Mash]

I have given up stripping completely on a still now. I always use the freezer now, just too damn easy. The trouble is you need the space

[RumJohn]

@Maker. DO THE MATHS. Before you start a wash you should know what you are looking at achieving. The amount of sugar or whatever you are using is important. Take an SG reading prior to pitching your yeast. At this point you will be able to calculate what you should finish up with.All thoughout the process, keep notes and take daily readings. Not only are they handy for the current run, but future runs of the same recipe.

The same applies to strip runs and spirit runs. Do the maths, keep records. These will tell you if you are on the right track, or not.

I often measure what is left over in the boiler. It tells you if you quit too soon. As was mentioned above, you may not want to drink it, but it is part of the whole and should be taken into account.

[Duffer26]

You can try running a spirit run straight off the wash without stripping first.

Compare the finished product with a stripped spirit run. You may find no discenable
difference. If so don't bother stripping. I don't.

Most people strip, Some don't. It's up to you.

I think you'd notice a leak somewhere if you're paying attention. Use a small mirror on all your joints to make sure.

I agree with the consensus that your wash was probable the guilty party here.

Use Vodka Star or Still Spirits Pure and make it the same way every time while your learning how to use your still. It's important to standardise this part of the process. They both make good vodka.

Regards, Marc.

[packapoo]

@Maker. DO THE MATHS. Before you start a wash you should know what you are looking at achieving. The amount of sugar or whatever you are using is important. Take an SG reading prior to pitching your yeast. At this point you will be able to calculate what you should finish up with.All thoughout the process, keep notes and take daily readings. Not only are they handy for the current run, but future runs of the same recipe.

The same applies to strip runs and spirit runs. Do the maths, keep records. These will tell you if you are on the right track, or not.

I often measure what is left over in the boiler. It tells you if you quit too soon. As was mentioned above, you may not want to drink it, but it is part of the whole and should be taken into account.

Well said RJ

[Maker]

Some helpful advice there, thank you all.

I tried running the stripped vodka star today (2 strips equalling 8L @ 49%)

Results as follows,
50ml fores
300ml heads
2700ml hearts @ 91%
1000ml tails @ 60% average (collected from 80+% - 50%)
It was starting to get stinky here so I stopped.

I tried running the still differently today and it certainly saved time, I used full gas power until half way heated, water on full, keep going until vapours appear, back off gas to slow burn and tinker until you get a steady trickle of liquid, stabalise the gas so the temp stays the same, after some time the output gets slower so back off the water to increase the flow of distillate, from now on as the distillate gets slower add more gas very slowly and as long as no vapours are seen keep doing it, had a pencil lead sized trickle pretty much constant for the whole run, well the tails were a bit stoppy spurrty but not a problem.

Thanks ever so much for the advice.

[RumJohn]

@Maker. You will develop your own methods out of experiene, knowlege, trial and error or whatever works best for you and your equipment. I, for example, run my boiler at full power until the head temp reaches my desired level. Water is turned on about 10 minutes before anticpated target is achieved. When the first drips appear, I dial the fire back to a lower setting. For a rum wash I push it hard for both strip and spirit runs.

Going for a neutral requires a complete reconfiguration of the column which I have covered in other posts. For the strip I push at full throttle. For the spirit run, with the reconfigured column which will now be packed, and once head temp is reached, I back off on the heat and only just maintain a boil. Equilibrium is the next target. Once achieved, and maintained for 30 to 60 minutes depending on column length and width, you slowly pull off the azeotrope without disturbing equilibrium.

Anybody can get noise out of a musical instrument. Run your still as if you are a concert pianist.

[Easydrinker]

Anybody can get noise out of a musical instrument. Run your still as if you are a concert pianist.

That is priceless!
It basically says that if you want top notch results, practice.
I couldn't agree more.

Robert.