StillSmart

Hello to all.
My first post is both a question and me attempting to have people throw rocks at me for making stupid suggestions. and long - you can throw rocks for that too.
I have read the Home Distiller forum back and sideways - asked questions. Got good advice and told that the Smart Still is a POS and I \"NEED\" to build one myself. Similar to telling the little kid who has just started playing tennis that he should saw his racket in half because he is not playing at Wimbledon. But i digress - those guys are doing it there way and good on them.
I would \"like\" to build my own - however - water + lack of stealth is what stops me and will not change. Hence the Smart Still being front runner here. A mate owns a reflux column and 25/30L boiler - I have helped him with that and we have it singing nicely - 93 - 94% every time. Not the same as having your own to play with though - hence why I am here.
2 questions - one I suspect is possible but not sure how exactly to achieve. Stupid question first - is it feasible/\"potentially\" possible (twilight zone/alternate universe) to add a larger volume boiler vessel - assuming the sealing of the top cooling/condenser to the boiling vessel could be worked out. I am suggesting getting a SS vessel made of the same diameter - but greater height to allow more volume.
2nd question - can a voltage regulator type of device - not exactly sure what the correct term is - be used to alter the voltage going to the heating portion of the unit to allow a more \"tunable\" device from the point of heat regulation. The fan stays as is - connected independently to a separate power source - so cooling does not change.
I am asking stupid questions first prior to purchase - as even if these options are not possible - I am intrigued by the process of getting the wash and the cuts right to make the best spirit possible - with or without a flavour profile from the original wash. I am also interested in utilising it as a true pot still - understanding the limitations of this device. I actually want to see if it is possible to use this device well - even allowing for the downsides of size and volume constraints. I will NOT be using any turbo yeasts.
I will also be adding some copper mesh into the top head portion of the unit to get some copper into the vapor path - possibly even a little twist into the extraction port itself. Not sure how I will afix the mesh as yet - but certainly will not use glue or anything stupid. Rare earth magnet possibly?
I have read with interest all the posts on this site - and welcome the idea that you do not chuck the device you have - because the utilisation of said device is seen to be not ideal by purists. Perseverance and the challenge to \"make it work\" is what I like.

J

The issues are more complicated.
You\'d need to make sure that you still have the appropriate voltage connected for the fan, as a voltage controller inline would have to only be connected to the heater element, not to the fan as well, otherwise you\'d probably not get sufficient cooling to the condenser.
So, as I see it, you\'d have to find a bigger pot, confirm that the condenser head fits and seals correctly - and probably need to have some way monitoring temperature.
Plus, if you had a separate power supply for the fan/condenser, are you sure that because of the size of the tubing in the condenser head that the increased volume of vapour isn\'t going to cause \"flooding\" of the condenser head tube ?
So I\'d suggest 2 things, either think of getting a super reflux model (they don\'t actually take up that much room, but you do need a water supply and drain) and apply the suggested mods to that, or just carry on running the easy/air/smart still as normal, but just collect the distillate, then water it down to about 40% or so and re-distil it - it will go to about 82% or so.
If you can build yourself a parrot so that the smart still runs straight into that, and then into a spirit collector, you\'ll be able to constantly monitor it\'s progress, then when it drops below, say, 80%, you just collect everything else as \"tails\" for re-distillation later.
Yes, that makes it an even slower process, but it will give you the highest possible %ABV spirit that what is essentially an inefficient pot still can do.
As for getting copper into the system, then only practical way is to use some copper mesh and actually put it into the boiler section (SS actually sell \"pads\" of copper mesh for this very reason/method).
Using turbo yeasts with table sugar isn\'t really an issue either. They do produce an acceptable quality of product. Either the SS \"Triple distilled\" yeast, or maybe vodka star.....
Don\'t forget, if you want something bigger and/or more efficient, there\'s always designs like Bokabob\'s \"Mini\" reflux, that\'s designed to sit atop of something like a large stockpot on a stove, but you still need water/drain for condenser cooling.....

Understood Phantom. Thanks
I had considered the extra volume from a bigger boiler. I also had considered the potential for the heating element to not be able to handle a larger volume. Cooling issue I had not considered I will admit. :\\
I am in OZ and we are only just out of 10+ years of drought. My mate runs his cooling out of 2 baths that collect water off his sheds - so water is not an issue for him.
I will just get hold of a standard smartstill from local brewshop my mate uses - make sure the vapour path really is all SS and learn to run that as well as I can. NO PLASTICS - I know. I never use plastic for storage of any food stuff.
I already have copper mesh - so I will work out some way of getting that into the vapour.
I will go find out exactly what a parrot is - (polly want a shotgun and a padded perch) although I think I have a bit of an idea - but I will go do research to find out.
I was always looking at double distilling. 80+% seems like a good yield. Certainly more farting about than with a reflux - but I can also make smaller washes if I find a full fermenter is too much to deal with. All part of the learning process I guess.
Has anyone here made a fruit based mash and run that through the SmartStill to get the flavours - and been succesful. We are coming into summer and I will have access to heaps of plums and apples - so I am considering utilising that to make a fruit wash and see if I can get some nice flavours coming through. Obviously will have to be really good on my cuts and not stick it on carbon. So it will be tricky. But if anyone has had a go I would be interested in the results you got. If it is worth it - or a waste of time and materials.
Thanks for the input Phantom. Appreciated. Yes a bigger/better still would do a better job - but currently not an option. So I either use nothing and not learn anything - or I use what is available. I choose the later option. I have unlimited amounts of time. So I can make 1 wash and re-distill it 50 times until I know how to do the thing correctly.
I also favour the idea of under filling the unit to avoid this boil over issue. Plus the common sense approach to use a cleared wash and the rashig things or whatever in the bottom of the pot. I am learning first - so I don\'t blow up later.
J

Hi Jed, Phantom gives good advice. I would only add that the 4 Litre air-still is not really big enough to make proper and well defined cuts. You would find cutting a pure sugar wash completely different to, say, a fruit or grain wash. I would treat the air-still as a vodka producer, and using something like Alcotec 48 to produce as much % as possible in order to distill 60% and then distilling twice to get it up to the 80% mark. The fun is in coming up with novel flavourings to add to the filtered / diluted result.

Regards, Ronbo.

Well if you\'re in OZ jed, then you might have to think about using the yeast that\'s designed to work ok up to about 35 degrees C - unless you\'ve enough space for a couple of buckets indoors (with AC on). Likewise the still, unless you\'ve got a basement of course.
It might make life easy if you can make a wash then look up about making a bucket still, because it might be feasible to leave that outside to warm up when it gets hot and then just put it in the house over night, it\'d be slow, but for the price of a couple of buckets and some black plastic, it might be brilliant.
If money isn\'t an issue, then don\'t forget that there\'s so brilliant custom made (off the shelf) stills available in OZ, then it\'d just be a case of having a couple of 225 litre plastic barrels and a water cooler/chiller device inline to run a reflux device....... which would also keep the cost of cooling down as well.
As for fruit washes ? Yes, I\'ve done cider that\'s been made from kits (easier and less hassle than having to press the apples for the juice - but if you\'ve got the kit, then pressing the apples would be cheaper, so it\'s just the time....). I just made up the kits as per the instructions, then added some sugar to increase the %ABV, instead of the yeast from the kit, I used \"Ritchies Cider yeast\" (dunno what the one from the kit was....).
I\'d bin the first 50mls, then just run the still, until the output was down to about 20%. That\'s then chucked into a carboy with oak chips (oak chips ? it\'s just fucking oak sawdust, from oak barrels that\'s been toasted a bit). The carboy has the distillate from about 100 litres of kit cider, plus the distillate from some other batches of wines and meads that I\'ve made, and not enjoyed the results, so they also went through the still.
I\'ve been filling the carboy slowly but surely, it\'s about 35 litres worth at the moment and I\'ll just keep going till it\'s full. At the moment, the \"Mixed Fruit Brandy\" (as I\'ve taken to calling it) is still a bit rough and has a whisky like taste to it, but it\'s a nice colour. Hopefully in a couple of years more, it will take on more of a brandy/calvados type flavour.......

Thanks guys.
There is some very good stuff available right off the shelf - true. There is an awesome column reflux device made in NZ called a PDA1 - all copper construction. They ran the output of that through a big scientific lab over there and it was better than store bought \"good\" vodka. So - yeah I could go and get anything or get a bloke to make me one. 2 issues - stealth - I don\'t own the property I would be doing it on + nosey pricks for neighbours.
So unless I do it in the garage with door closed - I am sitting outside with a big copper thing in the backyard. I will admit water is now not an issue - although the movement of the water storage device - a \"wheelie\" bin full to the top - should be more than enough. I cannot move 200+ kilos of water - well not without spilling 199 kilos at least
However - if I cannot distill the fruit and get a nice product - then I bring the fruit to the spirit and make a nice steeping sort of thing. Fruit and flavoured spirit is better than nothing. My mate would not agree.
I could make a small batch of plums say as a mash and then do a limited run and see how I go. If it is crap - I re-dilute and just collect hearts and the rest can be donated to weed killing. Harder to clarify a fruit wash I would imagine though. Would it be better to just deal with juice rather than fruit pulp being in the wash? I have no problem making a nice juice - just time factor. Is it similar to making wine if you got some sticks and stuff you will make more methanol - if you have skins and stuff for a fruit wash - would it impart extra non useful properties to the distilled product? Cuts being the problem here.
I know seeds and stuff have to be removed - cyanic compounds and such being the problem in a distilled product.
My mate has a wine press for doing grapes. I imagine that could be used for apples too - but you would have to smash the apples up first. Personally I would prefer to drink the cider rather than distill it but that is just me. Plums are easy.
Your concoction sounds good Phantom. Interesting thing about the additives - from Still Spirits etc - the longer they are left - the better they are - to the point that something that was total crap a week after making it is fantastic 12 months later. Just had some scotch we made 2 years back and it was beautiful. My dad said it was the best he had tasted in a long while. Now you will want to know which one it was - ? - my mate is label inept - but if we find the bottles that have labels and I find a name I will let you know.
Ronbo your point of the potstill being for producing just a vodka like spirit seems to fly in the face of using a pot still but I know what you mean. Difficulty in doing cuts means it is a pot still - but without the ability to accurately find where the flavours are coming in. All understood. I essentially want to try and reproduce a rum that is from spain called Cathique - (KA-THEE-K) a vanilla rum. Bloody fantastic drink. Had it when I was in Japan of all places - spanish dudes had heaps of it - we got well sorted - I was talking 5 forms of shorthand. So if I can make a thing like that and I am happy - then I am happy.
I am not the sort of bloke that has to have one of everything - or 50 squillion gallons of scotch - just in case ?? I drink to enjoy the drink not to get pissed off my head - therefore I will spend time getting it right. I won\'t drink it if it tastes like cats piss no matter what the alc % is.
I will tinker and try new things. Chuck it on wood and see what happens. 100% I will NOT be trying to save every single drop out of the thing and getting crook because of it. I already trained my mate out of that bullshit approach with his device. Took a while. He now willingly throws the first 100ml - just to make sure. I did 12 months reading before we ever did a run. I want to KNOW first and then do. I will make mistakes - but not because I was doing it dumb.
Now I just got to work out if it is a next week purchase or not. Plus all the fermentation gear and whatever.
Good info guys. Thanks. All input helps to get things sorted.
J

I think you should offer the next door neighbors a bottle or 2 to shut them up.

Then just run a reflux

Where are you in oz Jed

In Melbourne Andy. Bloke next door is ok - he only drinks wine. Other side if you breath or fart or open your eyes the fking dog starts barking and the owner is out there trying to see wtf set it off. POS dog barks at itself - or something 50 light years away it thinks might be there. Bastard of a dog. Dog would bark underwater covered in 10 feet of concrete.
Safer to keep my head down and stay off the radar.
I also have an issue due to being unable to work anymore - I was diagnosed with MS (multiple sclerosis) 14 months back - I am living with \"the folks\" until I can get my self sorted again. I have been out of action for 7 years. I had my own business - IT consultancy. No one pays you to sit on your ass asleep for 7 years
Hence I got heaps of time to get it right from a method point of view
So there is a limited amount of stuff I can get away with and having a reflux device sitting out in the open/can be seen - etc - is not going to cut it just now.
However the EasyStill device has been given the nod. It is something I can do with my dad whilst we watch us getting beaten in the bloody cricket. Good use of time - plus watching the thing - JIC it goes kaboom.
I am now looking at jars to use for collection when doing the cuts. Even if I have to have 10 jars - I don\'t care - I am learning. I know how the reflux still works now and I know we can produce a good spirit out of it. Now I want to try this and see what I can do. If I NEED 90+% I will get my mate to make me some next time he is doing it. Although we got enough \"stocks\" to last us midway into 4593AD
I look at it as an exercise in seeing what is possible with the ES.
Same as I did when we could only get 87% out of the Reflux. Find out what is wrong by trying 1 new thing at a time until it comes good. It did. Not bloody rocket science - just getting a stable and repeatable process down.
The ES is at least stable - not much to fart about with and have go wrong. So the rest is patience - wash and learning to make it work the best it can. If I only produce a decent semi neutral spirit - then I am doing it right. The rest as has been said is experimentation and trying new flavours. As long as I am happy with the results - and I am doing it safe - who gives a toss what anyone else might think.
Dumb ass Gov will let you make beer that tastes like dish water - but won\'t let you make a spirit that is probably better than some store bought examples. My anarchistic tendencies say I REFUSE to comply with BS narrow minded approach. NZ has it right - do it safe - give people the tools - and they will WANT to do it safe and make a good product for PERSONAL use that is better than the crap they were making with pressure cooker and 5 yards of copper pipe.
I will be doing this within the month. My crimbo prezzy to myself
Bloody good forum Jimmy. Thanks. Shows what can be achieved by people who want to help - not talk themselves up.
J

Treat the easystill for what it is Jed, a limited system to produce formulaic neutral spirit. Hell, if you dig around you\'ll find the the US gov\'s ATF branch define vodka as \"flavourless neutral spirit\" which what you make from turbo wash anyway.
For anything else, you\'d be having to make the base product first i.e. the wine for a brandy, cider for a calvados, etc etc. There\'s plenty of fruit flavoured liqueur you can make by just soaking it and adding some sugar to sweeten.
Your problem with trying to get adventurous with something as small and relatively inflexible as an easy still, is the discretion thing. Sugar turbo\'s are good in that respect, anything else can stink a bit.
As for watching OZ lose at cricket, they\'ll be back in winning ways soon enough, it\'s ashes time soon and as usual England are as much use as a chocolate fire guard!

Yeah I know Phantom.
I am not trying to polish turds and get diamonds. I understand the limits to what it can do.
I am not trying to rebuild the wheel here - I just want to be able to produce the best product out of it - that is possible. If my mate wants to make bloody slivovitz and whatever - he will have to buy a short pot still column and run it off his boiler - or detune the hell out of the reflux - which I don\'t want to see him doing. Took too long to get it sorted.
I am almost signed off on requiring carbon to filter with - the nano filter thing mentioned here in one of the pages seems like a good unit - and available here in OZ. Small - can refill myself - SS - no bloody plastic.
I would go and buy the bloody thing tomorrow - but I am going slowly first. I will run water through a few times just to get a feel for how it does things. Then I will do a small wash - as a test run - 12-15 liters. Do a few passes to 40% - and collect everything down to 20% odd and chuck that in a \"keep for later bottle\". Then water down the hearts of the 40%\'s and do another run - see what I get. Water it all down in the final mix with distilled water - and chuck it on carbon - depending on the smell/taste I am getting. even if I am only getting 500Ml hearts that are nice @ 40% odd X 3 runs - double distilled - that is 750Ml-ish at a higher ABV% - with more of the crap taken out of it. 1.5L diluted back to 40% - and most of the stuff I make is 30-35%.
It will all be found out in the doing I guess. I can tolerate 2 bottles of ?? something per 6 runs. Plus I still got the dregs to run later in another go. Even chucking away first 100ml - just for safety factor only - I am still doing ok. Not bad for a device that sits there and does it\'s thing and you just sit waiting with a few jars to be changed occasionally.
Sorting a good wash - that will be the thing - and clearing it correctly. Not buggering up the process by putting yeasts in the boiler.
Oh well it is all academic until I got the thing to use. Shopping trip for later this week I think - or at least - window shopping and fact finding prior to doing.
J

Cant stand cricket, bunch of yobs standing in the sun with long sleeves and long pants.

Bastards earning millions for what???????

Sorry

A

PS, I do the same as you - my own business - IT consultancy (so much fun, idiots with spyware, viri etc) no wonder I drink

Self employed eh?

So you are another one of those people, like me, who are finding very little work, don\'t show up on government statistics, and can claim bugger all from the state - despite many, many years of crippling tax payments!

Still thr spirit and the Bio are helping redress the balance!

Ha, another IT guy here as well, seems we\'re all driven to drink!
Just my little input to this thread - from the faffing about I have done, it gets very messy trying to put fruit etc into the wash, and didn\'t come out with anything special. Far better using them to flavour afterwards, plus you can make a crumble out of the leftovers! Obviously if you have time and storage capacity like Phantom is talking about, it might make a difference - for the amount of faff, doing a single bucket full is a bit of a waste of time I would say although you might enjoy the experiment!

Yeah I been doing the IT thing for 17 odd years. Just have had a bit of a blip over the last 5 really. That is the way it is. I might write down some of the dumb ass things I encountered over the years.
I think I am sold on fruit AFTER and added to the spirit - not trying to stuff around and get something out of a thing not designed to do it 100% right.
I probably will eventually have a go though. Just because I really like trying to make life hard for myself.
Storage is not really an issue - if I want to put the product on wood or whatever.
I had an idea for that too. Get some of that copper mesh - looks like a bloody big sock - make a little holder - put wood in there - dangle it in the spirit - with a stick or something lodged in the demijohn neck. No pissing around with filtering the bloody wood out. Plus copper won\'t screw up the spirit. I got 25 feet worth of the stuff - I reckon I can make something that will work and be reusable.
Still not sure how I will attach copper in the top of the \"head\" just near the vapour path intake. I need something simple and removable. I am still working on that.
Hot weather has started. well not hot for anyone else. above 25 degrees kicks me a bit. might bugger off to Antarctica and pretend to be a very big penguin for a bit.
I look forward to being able to say I have DONE - rather than just PLANNED.
What size fermenter do you reckon would be ideal? I was thinking 10-15L - with a tap thing I can run the wash off into something else and leave the dregs behind. I will not lose 2-3L in dregs and yeast crap - at least I would not think so. I am thinking one wash = 3 FULL charges of the still X double runs = 6 full runs - unless I cannot count. With heads and tails collected up - for a later go - foreshots tipped on weeds or squirted on a noisy bastard dogs bum. (I promise I do not own a water pistol) Or would buying standard 25L fermenter - and just doing 12L runs be a better option in case I wanted to do bigger later - buy once cry once?
I also found a site - well a few actually - that has recipes people have used - blends of the various essences. If you guys are interested I can make a new topic - under the flavouring part. Might give a few more options for us to try.
J

Jed, I'm using a Smart Still for the sort of experiments you're talking about.
I've made washes by pressing apples for juice, or by steam extraction and/or pulp fermentation with blackberries and plums with added sugar (strain off the fruit after a few days and let it ferment out). The apple stuff has come up weak (4% abv) so I plan to triple distil that. I've just finished the spirit run and cuts on a mixed fruit pulp wash.
On a spirit run I aim for 25-30% abv in the still, and collect in 50ml lots until the last lot goes below 40% abv (plus some tails after that). When doing the cuts (by smell and taste), I end up keeping about the middle 1/3 to 1/2. The rest goes back to await reprocessing.
Yes, it's a lot of effort for relatively little drink at the end of the day. But I'm learning a lot about the process, and the alcohol I get has a lot less solventy heads and the tails are not nearly so foul tasting as with the still spirits standard turbo yeast. I don't carbon filter, so that cuts down the effort a bit!
It's just a different approach. If it's what suits you, go ahead.
[Edit] PS, I\'ve connected up a 400W dimmer switch and one of those \"economy\" power meters to control the power input to the still, while leaving the fan on a separate lead so that still takes full power. I think it gives better separation of the heads, but I haven\'t any data to support that.