Introduction, and questions

[GrunthosTheFlatulent]

Introduction:

I am a fairly experienced home wine maker and all grain brewer, and have been making these for many years, but I have only started dabbling with spirits and liqueurs in recent months.

Initially as a means of ‘recycling’ a couple of disappointing wines, I have since made a couple of sugar washes using the Triple Distilled and Vodka Star yeasts.

To describe my set-up, I have a home made pot still consisting of a stainless steel pressure cooker on gas hob, approx. 150mm of 22mm diameter copper tubing rising from the lid, reducing to 15mm for a further 250mm, then a thermometer and a bend to what I believe is called a lyne arm of silicone tubing (supported in a lightweight aluminium channel) running above the worktop towards the sink where there's a 3 metre x 10mm diameter copper worm in a water bucket.

Now I've only been doing single runs and from a 5 litre charge I typically discard the first 50ml (or anything which comes over below 75°C), return the next 100-150ml of heads to the next batch, collect spirit until temperature at the top bend is around 85°C and distillate is down to 30%, then collect tails down to 15% which also go into the next batch.

Please feel free to criticise any of the above.

I've been directed to this forum thanks to a link posted on a winemaking forum (which has recently added a section for discussion on stills and spirits) to aidanmac's excellent guide on double distillation.

Questions:

On a single run, as soon as vapours start rising and the copper column becomes too hot to touch I would turn the worm tub water on and the heat right down, allowing the pot to simmer very gently for 90 mins or so. On a stripping run, would you just blast it through with little or no finesse?

On a spirit run, unless I can introduce some method of cooling my column, would there be any benefit in stuffing a stainless steel scourer up that column?

My washes are de-gassed, crystal clear and carbon filtered. For a neutral, do I still need to filter the final spirit?

[YHB]

Welcome to the forum, hope you stick around.

I am not trying to be over critical, so anything is only said with the best of intentions but:

Before we get to your questions.

Pressure cooker? what is the seal made of, the rubber ones are not very suitable for use with high strength alcohol and the other substances that you will be isolating?

How have you connected the Copper riser to the stainless steel?

The silicone lyne arm. When you are fitting any plastic pipe it is great but when it gets hot it develops a mind of its own and sags and kinks very easily and can easily get blocked. What diameter is it?

Have a think about it there are lots of examples of alternatives.

Please be safe.

Your questions,

On a single run, as soon as vapours start rising and the copper column becomes too hot to touch I would turn the worm tub water on and the heat right down, allowing the pot to simmer very gently for 90 mins or so. On a stripping run, would you just blast it through with little or no finesse?

Lots of variations possible here, for RUM some people heat the wash for a long period to produce extra flavours, Heat + Acid Wash= Esters (flavours), This is normally done in a reflux still so you can boil the wash with 100% reflux and not lose any of the vapour. You are saying you simmer the wash, if it is boiling then you have alcohol vapour leaving the still, pleased be careful.

Having heated the still for as long as you like, it is customary to run it as quickly as you can to carry over as much of the flavour as possible.

So for neutrals where you do not want favour do the opposite, do not give it a slow warm up and take off the distillate a bit slower.

I think that you will be limited by the size of your worm as to how hard you can push it.

On a spirit run, unless I can introduce some method of cooling my column, would there be any benefit in stuffing a stainless steel scourer up that column?

Absolutely not, it will still be a Pot still and the scrubbers will need cleaning regularly or you will be adding horrible flavours you do not want.

My washes are de-gassed, crystal clear and carbon filtered. For a neutral, do I still need to filter the final spirit?

I am confused here? It appears that you are carbon filtering the wash before you distil it.

Carbon filters are used to get rid of tastes, mechanical filters (Cotton Wool coffee papers and the like) are used to get rid of suspended particles.

If you want a totally clear wash then you may want to run it through a mechanical filter before you put it in your still, I do not think many people use this option.

If there are off tastes then you may want to put it through a carbon filter or you could dilute it to 30% and distill it again.

The distillate that comes out of the still should be crystal clear and sparkling, if not then you have a dirty still not a dirty wash.

For a neutral you really need a reflux still, it can be doe with a few runs in a pot still making cuts each time, but with a only a 5 litre charge as you are using it will be very difficult to make good cuts.

Now I've only been doing single runs and from a 5 litre charge I typically discard the first 50ml (or anything which comes over below 75°C), return the next 100-150ml of heads to the next batch, collect spirit until temperature at the top bend is around 85°C and distillate is down to 30%, then collect tails down to 15% which also go into the next batch.

Temperature has nothing to do with it. The temperature of the vapour is dependent on the amount of alcohol in the wash and will vary from wash to wash, so what is good to drink one time will not be good the next. Do some searches on making cuts.

There is a lot to learn but please be careful and do not rush into it and take risks - keep reading

[Icefever]

I'm also into AG brewing & wines and only just getting into this stuff. I have an Airstill at the moment but I'm looking at bits on the net on how folks build their own. Do you have any photos??? they say a picture says a 1000 words.

All the best.

[Admiral Toad]

Love the name. Could be very explosive

[Almanac]

GTF wrote:"To describe my set-up, I have a home made pot still consisting of a stainless steel pressure cooker on gas hob,

My concern is about you using your still on a gas hob indoors Please tell us you're running your still outdoors.

AM

[GrunthosTheFlatulent]

Many thanks for the comments so far.

To YHB:
Pressure cooker? what is the seal made of, the rubber ones are not very suitable for use with high strength alcohol and the other substances that you will be isolating?

How have you connected the Copper riser to the stainless steel?

I'm not sure what the pressure cooker gasket is made from, it's some sort of grey soft plastic.

The copper riser is connected with a 22mm compression brass tank fitting and is gas tight.

The silicone lyne arm. When you are fitting any plastic pipe it is great but when it gets hot it develops a mind of its own and sags and kinks very easily and can easily get blocked. What diameter is it?

16mm external, 10mm internal, 750mm long. It's supported in an aluminium V profile channel and cannot possibly sag or kink. It's there purely to transport any volatile vapours well away from any source of ignition, and then connects to the copper worm via a John Guest push fitting.

I am confused here? It appears that you are carbon filtering the wash before you distil it.

Carbon filters are used to get rid of tastes, mechanical filters (Cotton Wool coffee papers and the like) are used to get rid of suspended particles.

If you want a totally clear wash then you may want to run it through a mechanical filter before you put it in your still, I do not think many people use this option.

I'm doing both.


To aidanmac:
My concern is about you using your still on a gas hob indoors Please tell us you're running your still outdoors.

Nope, indoors, but I have absolute confidence in my joints and volatile vapours can not escape anywhere near to any source of ignition. The vapour path is secure but unobstructed.

[YHB]

Being new to the forum I do not know how much you have read but a couple of things to think about.

Plastics / Rubber.

When a push fitting in the plumbing section at B & Q says "non toxic" it is making that statement with regard to the purpose for which it is being sold.

Similarly the seal on the pressure cooker is guaranteed safe for cooking stew.

When exposed to high strength high temperature chemical vapours different considerations need to be taken into account.

Some Plastics turn brittle when used in the confines of a still, the brittleness is caused by the plasticisers being leached out of the plastic, where do the plasticisers go to? Into the drink. Some of these plasticisers are not very nice to the human body.

Have a Google for a "Chemical Resistance Chart" and look up the resistance for the types of plastic that are acceptable for Acetone, Ethyl Alcohol and Methanol all of which are produced at some stage of the distillation process. Some charts list the resistance of materials to alcohol at 40% make sure you look for one that says pure alcohol vapour 95%.

Things like PVC do not score very well And I cannot find any reference to "some sort of grey soft plastic"

If in doubt stick to Silicon, Teflon (PTFE) EPDM or flour and water paste.

The choice is yours, and you must make up your own mind but please be careful. We want you around for a long while.

[Capt-Cudellez]

You might want to wrap the gasket in PTFE tape. It could be a PITA to do if its not a solid gasket, but should let you feel more confident with its resistance.

[Almanac]

GTF Wrote: To aidanmac:
My concern is about you using your still on a gas hob indoors Please tell us you're running your still outdoors.

Nope, indoors, but I have absolute confidence in my joints and volatile vapours can not escape anywhere near to any source of ignition. The vapour path is secure but unobstructed.

The reason for not using gas or any other source of ignition during distillation is not because your seals might be dodgy. Your confidence in your joints is admirable but the advice is given for a different reason.

Picture this sequence of events;

Your still is running a spirit run and producing ethanol at 75%+ABV. All is well and your distillate is flowing into your collection vessel.

During the run someone calls to your home and you're distracted for a while. Unfortunately you don't realise that the local council has turned off the water in your area for repairs and your coolant has long stopped flowing.

High strength ethanol vapours are now building up in the room where your still is located and when the volume of ethanol in the air reaches sufficient concentration the gas flame will ignite it with explosive consequences....seriously!

Have a look at this link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-li ... e-14146993
The people involved were distilling spirits, probably not as carefully as we do, but that's the point.

Unless you operate outdoors, like many do in AUS/NZ and the US/CAN, gas or any other kind of flame should not be allowed anywhere near high strength ethanol and that means it shouldn't be in the same building.

This may sound over the top but there was also a guy somewhere in the north of England earlier this year who blew out windows and himself in his house while distilling spirits on a gas cooker.

Bottom line here don't take the making of spirits for granted or it will bite you in the bum. High strength Ethanol, such as that which comes out of a still on a spirit run, is both an explosive and a poison and should be treated with respect and caution....then you can drink it

Just be safe out there

AM

[John51]

Welcome.

You can get a low profile leccy twin hob for not much money. For extra control you can make yourself a 2kw power controller and have the hob on max. This frees you from the on/off cycle of the hobs thermostat.

Lowering the power won't decrease the vapour temps but it will control the flow rate and lower heat on a pot still can give a nice increase in spirit run quality at the expense of a longer running time.

You could cut yourself a new gasket if you find a suitably sized silicon baking sheet, might need to double up, I seem to remember pressure cooker gaskets being on the thick side.

I'm sure you have a copy of JRR Berrys' classic, First Steps in Winemaking. Try running his coffee wine through your pot still as slow as your patience allows. Gorgeous.

[GrunthosTheFlatulent]

I'm sure you have a copy of JRR Berry's classic, First Steps in Winemaking. Try running his coffee wine through your pot still as slow as your patience allows. Gorgeous

Thanks, I might give that a try, although I think you might mean CJJ Berry, JRR was Tolkien

And thanks to everybody for the concerns and tips on my safety, I may just ask Santa for an air still after all.

[John51]

I think you might mean CJJ Berry, JRR was Tolkien

I drink.

[Easydrinker]

Hic.
As do I.
Santas's sherry,whiskey,whatever,is always missing on xmas morning.
Don't ask what I do with Rudolph's carrot............
Robert.

[John51]

OT but I modded his 'house white' recipe (the one using tinned peaches) to something easily done and gave a 'tastes like cordial but is 16%abv' in a month. 3 cheers for the Harris quickfine filter. Murky soup to a glass of clear and polished wine in half an hour.

[Admiral Toad]

Aye mate I was a bit jokey earlier on but we have a strict policy in our house

When Daddies playing no naked flames. grill or oven only

Often feel as welcome as a a fart in a spacesuit in me own kitchen. bloody women