StillSmart

As this comes before fermentation, I wasn't sure where on the boards to place the topic.

In preparation for my next run/s, I have been reading up on mashing procedures. Most articles I've read, differentiate between the higher 'strike' temperature, at which you gradually add the grain, and the 'mashing' temperature, being the temperature at which you hold for a period. Again, some mention a 'mashing out' temperature, this being higher than the mashing temperature.

However, in one article (actually Wikipedia – Wort). the suggestion seems to be that the grain is added before any strike temperature being reached.

I quote:

“At set intervals, most notably when the mixture has reached temperatures of 45, 62 and 73 °C (113, 144 and 163 °F) ....the heating is briefly halted.......The temperature of the mixture is usually increased to 78 °C (172 °F) for mash-out.

The argument being that different enzyme activities occur at the different temperature levels. Now, 45° C is far below any strike or mashing temperatures that I've come across, which would mean that the grain, with this method is added well below mashing temperature.

Does anybody here follow the above procedure and, is so, for how long should each temperature level be held ?

Hi Toper

I've done quite a few mash's over the years, some beer styles do call for a stepped mash, including protein breaks etc, especially lagers but I've never found the need, ive always used a single infusion mash for 90mins followed by sparging with a higher temp water for mash out on the fly.

I usually have a strike temp around 73°c, add my grain, give it a good stir to remove any lumps then hold it at 66°c for 90mins, then fly sparge with 85°c water until I've collected what I want, to get the strike temp correct you need to take into account the volume of your mash liquor and the weight / temp of your grain, here's a good calculator for getting it right.

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/calc.html

I use an iPhone app called "sparge pal" bung in the details, weight of grain, temp of grain ect. and it gives you the volumes and temps to hit. works pretty good.

With regard to water to be used, some methods advocate either boiling first or, treatment with camden tablets to reduce/remove chlorine. Does anybody here do this?

Whilst in making a 'drinking' beer, in many methods, a logical case is made for a 'first/second runnings' etc., establishing a good grain filter bed, lautering slowly, and sparging to extract maximum sugars from the mashed grain, is all this necessary when mashing to produce a 'distillers' beer?

I can readily accept the need to avoid the introduction of excess tannins and off flavours in the subsequent boiling of the 'drinking' beer wort but, so far as I can make out, there is no subsequent boiling of a 'distillers' beer wort.

Just how much is it necessary to remove how much of such husk material in a distillers wort?
Will fermentation, without boiling, extract excess tannins?
Couldn't the lautering/sparging process be simplified?

Hi Toper

I wouldn't worry too much about tannins, but it's important to get the amount of mash water correct to ensure the mash doesn't get stuck, and to allow optimum conversion, it's important to keep the grain bed floating while sparging, try to balance the wort out with the sparge water in, after you've taken the first few jug fulls of wort (and carefully returned them to the top without creating any channels) it should start to run clear with no bits, this is because the grain bed will have settled on the false bottom of the mash tun and will act as a filter.

At this stage your pretty much there, just sparge until you've added the amount of sparge water needed, then stop sparging and carry on collecting until it stops.

If using any brewing recipes for calculating quantities of sparge water, you need to be careful as the amount you need will be less, you won't be boiling it for 90mins, and many recipes take into account losses during boiling.

Some people will boil for 10mins just to kill off any nasties before fermenting, but then you need some way of cooling the wort, I've done an all grain wash and didn't bother, it fermented out just fine, just make sure you clean your mash tun before use, most beer Brewers don't bother sterilising their mash tun because everything that goes through it gets sterilised during the boil.

If you can get grain specifically intended for distilling, it's malted at a lower temp, its treated to minimise the risk of infection during fermentation without the wort being boiled.

Referring back to my question about Chlorine (here I think one must include Chloramines ).

Many argue that these should be removed from brewing water, as they can be responsible for reduced starch conversion from malt, whilst possibly leaving medicinal flavours in the final product.

Due to the rather lengthy half-life of Chloramines ( 12/15 times that of Chlorine) boiling off does not not seem a viable option. Even Chlorine, where it takes about two hours to boil it off from 5 gallons of water, would seem best treated by camden tablet, from the economic point of view.

Whilst many here advocate the reduction/removal of Calcium Carbonate from brewing water (for much the same reasons), Chlorine and Chloramines appear to have little, if any, mention.

Mashing for a Distillers Beer wort.

I have come across Distillers recipes/methods where grain is actually left in the wort to be fermented. Such method would seem to obviate most of the processes of runnings, lautering, sparging etc.

As against a 'Drinking' beer wort, are there reasons why a 'Distillers' beer wort, would require the same treatment?

I hasten to add that I am not averse to implementing any of the usual mashing processes, I just like to understand why both Brewers and Distillers worts require the same treatments, though they will be used and treated differently immediately after starch conversion.

The one being boiled for an extended period of time,with stepped herbal additions, then fermented and allowed to drop clear before being drunk.

The other being chilled and immediately fermented, then twice distilled, and then aged, before drinking.

The significant differences appearing to be that a Distillers wort is not boiled for a period, therefore no tannin extraction possible, no herbal additions and, as it is to be distilled, no problems with protein haze or similar.

Is the requirement for a relatively clean ,husk and grain free wort the same in a Distillers beer wort as it is in a Brewers beer wort?

I think your over complicating things, all we want is the as much starch in the grain as possible to become sugar in our wash, the beer makers have perfected the art of mashing, so just follow standard procedures for mashing/sparging to get some nice clear wort to be fermented, there's no benefit to fermenting on the grain, it just becomes a right mess of a job separating the two afterwards.

I've just had a quick look at the water treatment section of Graham Wheelers "Brew Your Own British Real Ale At Home" a book regarded by most AG Brewers as the bible, he only talks about Calcium Bicarbonate, Calcium Sulphate (gypsum), Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salts) and Sodium Chloride (common salt)

Saying that as a brewer boils their wort for an extended period, purification chemicals like chlorine are removed, we don't have that step in our process, just mash and ferment without it and follow Aidanmac's guide to water treatment, he's put a lot of time an reaserch into it and I'm sure you will have no problems.

I won't say that you are wrong Toper,but you are I believe wishing to go the extra,possibly,not needed mile.
Should you try this from the easy and not so easy route,please inform us of the difference.
Robert.

I have just finished mashing some peated grain, using an Electrim Digital Masher/Boiler and a Mashing/Sparge Bag.

On completion, having run off, at the bottom of the Mashing Bin, I can see a layer of light coloured residue which has passed through the mash of the bag.

Is this usable at all or simply something to be disposed of?

Hi Toper

If it's left behind in the MT, just chuck it,

How did you get on with your mash? Did you hit your target SG?

I don't have a wort chiller as yet, so the temperature reading is 45°C.

I wanted an O.S.G. which would give a potential 8 -10% abv.

The grain, a flavouring adjunct was two kg.,heavy peated. (It was mashed in a 4 kg batch and divided between two worts.

The Light LME was 2 x5 kg

A finished volume of 2 x 23 litres of wort for fermentation.

At 45° C., the SG reading is 1087

Using a ph strip tester, I get a colour match to 5.2

How efficient the mashing has been I don't know.

Will throw the yeast tomorrow

Hi Toper

If you only used 2kg of grain in 4 litres of water for the mash before halfing it between the two fermenters, How did you end up with 2x23 litres at 45°c?

I'm sorry, you seem to have mis-read my posting.

I used 4 kg of grain
10 kg of Light LME

This split between 2 x 23 litre worts.
Giving 2 kg of grain and 5 kg of LME per each 23 litres.

The 4kg of grain was done as one mash, then divided.

Hi Toper

I was just wondering how you managed to end up with 46 litres at 45°c, did you add all the LME into the mash tun and heat the hole lot or did you bring it all to the boil for a few mins to sterilise the wort?

I would have only mashed the grain in a small batch with maybe 6-7 litres of water, sparge with maybe 10 litres, this would be just enough rince out the sugar from the grain and to dissolve the LME, then top up with cold water, hopefully end up around 30°c and add the yeast straight away.

The LME was diluted with an equal amount of hot water, used to rinse out the jerry can.

It was then brought to a boil to ensure a 'hot break', thereby helping to coagulate solids. (There are those who argue that as LME has already been through the mashing process, that such boiling isn't necessary. I have always found it beneficial.)

Your suggestion of mashing small smaller quantities of grain in 6-7 litres of water would not have been possible. Using a bag, as I mentioned, the grain would have been suspended above such a small amount of water without any immersion at all.

I do intend to either make, or purchase a wort chiller, thereby gaining from the 'cold break' as well.

This though can wait until I've used up my present stock of LME and moved over to all grain.