Smart Still - over boiling ? How to stop this ???

[Phantom]

Ok, so I'm aware that on occasion, the table top "smart still" can over boil.
This is often because of "cloudiness" issues with the wash.
When I first experienced this, I was advised about using ceramic rings (raschig rings I think they're called), or some of the "ceramic saddles" that I got with my 25 litre "Super Reflux" still, or even (as suggested over at "homedistiller", some sanitised broken glass). Plus to try using "distillers conditioner" in the wash.
Anyway, stupidly, I was running it this afternoon, and I'd forgotten about doing any of the above, mainly because the current batch of wash is almost "gin clear".
My partner spotted it as it did a tiny "burp" splashing just a few teaspoons full of wash. So I held the top down while I switched the power off.
It was then that I remembered the glass/ceramic beads/conditioner "trick". So I got a handful of the ceramic saddles, opened the top and chucked them in.
Mistake!
It proceeded to foam about 2 litres of hot wash all over the place. "A la teaspoon in hot milk from the microwave".
So I've just finished cleaning it up and since then I've added the distilled spirit back into the wash, along with 2 more litres of wash to replace what foamed out. Plus I've also added the capful of the distillers conditioner as per the instructions. It's now running again, though not in the kitchen
I've also read here at the smartstill forums about "cleaning the condenser". I can do that with my 25ltr reflux still, but the smartstill doesn't have any obvious way of cleaning the condenser as it's all built into the lid.
So can someone explain how this is done please ?
TVM

[Jimmy]

Ooh, nasty - glad you're not hurt this time!
All I've done with my condenser is blow it through - I was having an odd problem where one run would be fine and then the next from the same batch would bubble badly, which seemed to say to me that it wasn't the wash. I cleaned everything out inside but it was still the same, so in a totally unscientific way I stuck my gob on the outlet pipe (when it was cool!) and blew as hard as I could a few times. It seemed to help, but that's not to say it is conclusive proof.
My reasoning for this is that before it bubbles over you get a period of calm where the rate of collection slows right down - to my mind that must mean that something is blocking it getting out, and allowing the pressure to build inside. All I can think of is that either that this blockage is liquid, and somehow it's backing up (unlikely) or that some kind of solid is blocking the pipe, maybe just a little but enough to cause the pressure buildup. If anyone else has a better theory then I'm all ears!

[alan]

jimmy / phantom,all i do to clean mine is turn the lid upside down and fill the coil with stiriliser (VWP) just anough to fill the tube no more or you will wet the fan moter leave to soak for about 1 hour then up end the top over the sink rocking the top back an forth to empty then fill with water a couple a times to flush it through

hope this helps. once a week i strip the top down and plug one end of the coil with a small cork and fill it as befor but let it sit there over nigth

[Phantom]

Oh, OK thanks both.
If that seems to be the case I'm guessing that there must be variations during the actual evaporation of the alcohol - I'm guessing that maybe something like a little capilliary effect must cause a slight build up of cooling spirit and the slight variation in pressure inside the still is enough to cause bubbling problems.
Basically I seem to have experienced the same problem as Jimmy i.e. sometimes it seems to run fine then other times this problem appears.
I mean, the second run, with the conditioner and the saddles in the boiling pot meant that it seemed to work without a hitch - in fact it seemed to have run faster than the first go.
Maybe that was because there was still some residual heat in the pot I don't know.
I'm not sure if Jimmy's idea of just blowing down the tube would have much effect as I've tried that before and it seems that the collector end of the tubing isn't actually connected/sealed to the funnel shaped part of the lid, it would seem that the spirit just drops into the funnel and then into the carbon filter holder "a la gravity".
I'm now thinking that it might be worth while dismantling the lid after each batch i.e. 25 litres of wash.
Damn! I've just remembered something I read over at homedistiller. It's got me thinking that maybe they've built it/them with tubing that's just a little too close to the absolute minimum to conduct the vapour? It's got to be possible as they've done quite a good job of making it so compact!
Hum?

[Jimmy]

Well I am extremely talented (!) so I also stuck my gob on the other end and blew it through - it never seems to have a detectable blockage but there you go. I keep meaning to give it a go with the little compressor I've got and blow it through properly but I can never be bothered. If it becomes a major problem I'll probably investigate taking it apart - if anyone beats me to it and finds anything, send through some pictures and I'll put them up!

[Phantom]

Well this evening, after I'd finished doing the last run of a batch I cleaned out the boiler, dried it and put everything away except the lid......
3 screws later, the top most cover was off. Some wiggling around removed the condenser tube, which does seem to be reasonably well made, there is a small "T piece" of silicone on the end but that's not actually connected to anything, it just drops the distilled spirit into the lower section of the casing which flows it into the carbon filter bag holder.
Yes I did give it a rinse, but there was no evidence that there might be any reason why it might cause the bubbling of the boiler section to lift the lid.
The only way I can see of cleaning it, without taking it apart every time, seem to be, holding the lid so that the protruding part of the case is facing down, you'd then have to squirt a tiny amount of some sort of liquid cleaner into the condenser from the "inside the lid" part.
This would then be rinsed through with water - while still holding the lid in the same way as mentioned above and of course, over a sink, and keep the water flow rinsing through the condenser until there's no sign of the cleaning liquid.
Then you'd just blow it through, whether with some sort of compressed air or just by blowing down the entry hole.
There's no point in trying to blow through the discharge/external hole as it's not actually connected to the condenser pipe it's just like a sort of moulded funnel type affair.
The only reason why I can think that I haven't had any problems is because I've been using some boiling beads and distillers conditioner in the wash when it's running.
Now I'm not saying that there's nothing actually gained by rinsing the condenser through, just that there's no apparent or logical reason why it might affect the boiler section and the way the wash sometimes bubbles enough to lift the lid.
Logically, that can only be cause by back pressure in the boiling chamber so it can only be down to something "wrong" with the wash i.e. something that causes the bubbles to join up into a large(r) bubble providing enough back pressure between the surface and the lid to lift it causing the eruption....

[bluecap]

Hi all, ill give my experience from tonight with my smartstill.
I was down to 8 liters of wash in my bucket and as normal put the four liters in the still up to the mark and all was ok at first until it started over popping and eventually the side completely lifted up and spewed a large amount of wash out over the side, this had never happened before, my instinct obviously was to turn it off which I did and let it cool a while, about twenty minutes later I switched it back on and it seemed to finish ok all be it a bit noisy.
After letting it cool as normal I put the last four liters in but before I did I used a degasser on it, the type you fasten to a electric drill and got rid of all the gas, the last distillation went flawlessly and was even quiet which can only leave the conclusion that it was the gas in the wash that was the problem and if you think about it a load of gas in a sealed unit has to get out somewhere.
Now whether this is the answer or just luck I don’t know but it’s the only difference between the first and second distillation

[Phantom]

Well I'd guess that it could easily be possible that when you give the wash the stirring to de-gass it prior to hitting it with the finings, that if you're using a plastic paddle type stirrer then maybe it could release enough gas and stir up enough sediment to be convincing..........
Plus it might also be feasible that any wash that hasn't had all the CO2 released might sit on the bottom of the bucket when it's cleared....
It's just so hard to be convinced about the various ideas as to why this problem might occur some times..... mainly because I seem to have had all of the possible suggestions at various times, sometimes it lifts, others not and as I haven't thought about keeping a record of the progress.....
I suspect I'll just keep on just working as I am, but always making sure that I have boiling chips of some sort in the heater section and keep including a cap full of "distillers conditioner" as I haven't had any problems when I've used it (so far......)
Of course if anyone else has any ideas or suggestions I'll certainly give them a try.
TVM

[bluecap]

Hi Phantom
That last 4 litres was still a little cloudy which I degassed with a degasser that you attach to a drill just before putting it in the still so got rid of all the gas, the distillation went perfect and on opening the still afterwards there was a layer of sediment on the base so it has to be the amount of gas in the wash, but saying that it’s a non exact hobby so I hope I’m right.
Please don’t prove me wrong.

[Jimmy]

Gas sounds like a good theory, which of course would work by degassing - what does the distillers conditioner actually do? Is it related to CO2 in any way, or does it do something different? We're closing in on it!

[quietman]

The man from my local hbs warned me to make sure all the gas was out of the wash by stirring vigourously as often as possible at the end of its fermentation. He told me that it would bubble up and lift the lid if this was not done (so I did and all was fine with mine). So another clue to the problem methinks lol

[pi55ed]

May sound stooopid of me but if you whisk the wash for a bit before putting it in the still would that get rid of any gas left in the liquid wash before distilling????????
would filtering the wash through coffee filters help in anyway????????

[Jimmy]

It's not stupid at all - yes it would help, and I've seen people with adapted drill attachments for that kind of thing. I don't have a whisk though, but I'll try to do something next time! Filtering will help if there are particles in the wash, it'll help gas a little too as it's splashing about from one container into another.

[Phantom]

The "Still Spirits" instructions state that before adding finings to clear down the wash, you should stir it vigorously to de-gas it. As it helps the finings to clear it quicker.
Because you'd normally be making the wash in larger, more open containers, there's no reason why you couldn't just get a cheap plastic stirring stick from the HBS and put it in the chuck of a drill.
There's no real reason why you might need to buy a more expensive "whizz stick" that has folding blades, they're really for using in DJ's etc with wine, because you can't get a plastic stirrer in a bottle or a DJ.

[pi55ed]

Dont let the water splash on the sparks of the drill though....... BOOM !!