StillSmart

Hi there

I'm after a bit of advice from the more knowledgeable! I abandoned turbos two or three months ago following discovering the forum, and now run lentil washes using the standard recipe.

What's bemusing me is that although I follow the recipe, and use an aquarium heater at 30 degrees; fermenter wrapped in towels for insulation and a good beating before starting, it always seems to take around two weeks to ferment out rather than the six days I'd expect from the guide.

Apart from pH which I'm now starting to think about (as I have NO idea what pH the water is here), is there anything that anyone can suggest for the slow ferment?

Cheers

Hampk

Mine never finish in 6 days either. A low pH is one possible reason. Weak (aka old) yeast would result in a slow start and prolong fermentation. Insufficient oxygen would have a similar result. Lack of nutrients would also explain an extended fermentation. I am not 100% sold on the nutrient value of lentils for the purposes of yeast. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/leg ... cts/4337/2 I add some Diammonium Phosphate (DAP) and Epsom salts to my washes too and have recently started adding some vitamin B1. That seems to help, but they still go 8 - 10 days before dropping below 1.0 It could also be something in your water that the yeast does not like (chlorine, cloramines, something in your well water if not on mains).

That is all that I can think of for now.

Chuck

Calcium Carbonate/Limescale is a particular problem is you have hard water. there's a booklet under Resources/Distilling Booklets on water treatment if you need it.

Another problem I discovered with the Lentils I was using was that if they were not rinsed until the water ran clear the wash was very slow. Apparently the grey dust washed off the Lentils was inhibiting the yeast. Once I washed them properly the problem disappeared

My Lentil washes are taking 7 days on average (I've given up trying to figure out why two identical washes, in identical conditions, take different times to finish) and a further two days to clear. however, I do run mine with 5kg sugar.

I like my washes completely clear before stripping and for good reason. I did try a 'more-or-less' cleared wash a few weeks ago. After the run I set about my normal cleaning routine but the floor of the boiler was covered in black crap which took a lot of work to get rid of. My boiler has a 2" opening on top and cleaning the still through that was a nightmare. With properly cleared wash all I have to do is rinse and smile

Sorry, wandered off topic there but it's kind-of related

I know where Chuck is coming from but I've always found the Lentil wash reliable, unexciting but reliable. Oxygen, or the lack of sufficient supply is a possible contributor to slow ferment. You can obviate the need for Oxygen in the wash by growing a yeast starter for about 12 hours before pitching. This would ensure a really strong yeast colony.

AidanMac

Mine take about 2 weeks to finish aswell, I always run a pump with air curtain in it for 24hrs to oxygenate it. I always make sure the ph is 5.2. The temp is always 30oC and insulated to try to eliminate temp swings. They go off like a rocket but then really slow down. But the end result is worth it for a good neutral. The only thing I haven't tried is rinsing the lentils first, so will try that on the next batch.

This response draws upon snippets from most of the above posts.

I call it my lentil wash,but it is actually Yellow split pea,and my favoured pulse for a neutral wash,I doubt that there is a great deal of difference in the nutrient value.But it costs 50% less a bag.

I also add DAP and Epsom salts.
I use an aquarium bubbler before pitching.
I use 5Kg sugar to 23 litres total volume.
I use aquarium heaters at 30°C.
My water is a steady Ph7,the wash,when I can be bothered to check,is usually around Ph 5.5.
The mains water is very soft with added chlorine,you can smell it.
Sometimes,as AM states,I get two identical fermenters finishing with a two day time lag,and until now have no idea why.
My washes do usually finish in 5-6 days at .990 or lower,the longest for one to go sub 1.000 was 9 days.
I don't wait for it to clear,at a virtual end of fermentation,I rack to a clean vessel,leave 24 hours then rack into the boiler and strip.
My still is a bigger version of the air still,and this works for me.
No oil or conditioner,lots of copper boil pieces.
Being an urn based still,cleaning is very easy,and while sometimes there is a little wiping,not even scrubbing to be done,it is hardly worth mentioning.
So,that is my response to some of the above.

Last night,now more than 24 hours ago,I started a couple more of these washes.
I couldn't help but notice that the two brew bins contained different coloured sugar water,before adding the pea mix and yeast.
Without going into laundry detergent speak,one was a bluey clear,and one a browney clear.It wasn't a lighting glitch.
Identical containers,of the same age.
One had sugar from Aldi,one had sugar from Lidl.

I wish that I had read this thread at that point,I would have checked Ph on the two.
My first thoughts are that all refined sugar is not created equal,and am left wondering if this maybe a reason for some of the above complaints?
Welcome to "Conspiracy Theory 2,-It's The Sugar Refiners!"

OK,I know that some of you consider me bonkers anyway,but I can't wait to get these two washes finished,and try and replicate the early stage.
I usually shuffle my bags of sugar,by accident,last night it was most definitely as stated,sadly,as I then split the two washes to three fermenters to keep the yeast monster under control,on this occasion,I can do no more.

If the next washes show similar characteristics,I'll let you know.
Society is maybe best served by my sitting at a laptop than being out on the streets...

Robert.

I moved on to a wheat recipe For similar reasons. Better ferment and cleaner product.

Mashy wrote:I moved on to a wheat recipe For similar reasons. Better ferment and cleaner product.

Have you posted that under Recipes? It would be useful for anyone not completely happy with the Lantil wash to have a good alternative to try

AidanMac

ooer - good point posted it somewhere (ish).
Will go find, write it up proper and post it to recipes.

Thank you all for your fascinating comments. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has slow pulses, and now I'm less concerned about it! I might have a bash with yellow split peas next time, and will make sure they get rinsed well.

I'm fairly sure it's not an oxygenation issue as I reliably get a nice thick krausen within an hour of pitching - but again I will try a starter next time if you don't try, you'll never know!

That wheat recipe sounds interesting - while I'm happy with the lentil wash, I'm always keen to try something new.

As ever, some really helpful responses to my query

Update:

Latest batch of lentils (well-rinsed!) has now been bubbling away for just under two weeks. Original SG was around 1.07, it's now dropped to 1.00 and been there for several days. pH is about 3.

Any suggestions for kicking it back into life will be gratefully received, or is the consensus now just to leave it to drop ever more slowly?

Cheers

Hampk

At pH3 the yeasties are probably, mostly, asleep

You could try dissolving 2 teaspoons of Sodium Bicarbonate in half a cup of warm water and adding it slowly to the wash while stirring gently. You don't want to introduce and Oxygen but the wash will fizz up quite a bit and a gentle stir will move the dormant cells off the bottom and they may get back to work.

I'd try adding half the water/bicarbonate and checking the pH before adding any more. you don't want to make too dramatic a change in a short time - might shock the yeasties

Thanks for that AM - bicarbonate duly added - you were right, it fizzed a whole lot! - fingers crossed now; I'll let you know what happens

You should measure the pH again now and see if more is needed. And keep an eye on it, it may dive again. That is what happened to me until I started using a pH buffer. Though lately the buffer has been causing problems so I need to reformulate it.

I am with chill's remarks here,but being the heathen that I am,I simply sprinkle half a tsp of bicarb. onto the wash,leave 30 mins and check Ph.if it is below 5,then I do it again.
I'm unsure why so many pulse washes take a nose dive into acidity,but they seem to.
HTH

Robert.

chill - can I ask what you use for a ph buffer? I've struggled with slow lentils (they are Tesco, no idea if that's why!) but after several runs, I'm starting to get results I like. I'm wondering if ph is my problem, so I'm keen to experiment with any ideas to improve things further.

Cheers

Hampk