the need for filtering

[ex expat]

Hi All,

a professional stillman knows that even in a coluum still its necessary to "top and tail" the distillate as it comes off, that means that the first liquid and the last should not be allowed to run into the collector , taste is a good way to see if the light and heavy ends of the run are coming off. if you do this carfully it is not necessary to filter your product at all but it does take practice. t

[Phantom]

I also understand that to be correct, but is there some sort of table that might tell us, that depending on the strength of the wash/mash, that X amount of litres should yield about Y amount, of which only Z amount is the actual "heart" that is kept, rather than being dumped or retained and mixed with the next batch
Testing by flavour seems to be quite difficult to do with sugar turbo wash, as there's basically bugger all flavour to it prior to being "run" - I tend to bin the first 50 to 100 ml's and then run my table top device for the suggested 800 ml's (from 4 litres of wash) or until the thermometer hits about 86/distillate is less than 50% ABV (from a full 25 litres) in my reflux device.
do you have any other ways of testing for poor quality ? Because I also run "modified" cider kits (extra sugar, tannin and acid) and it doesn't seem to matter where it's at between 50 and 85% ABV because there's been no hideous smells or off flavours that I can detect.
So if you have any links etc, that'd be great.

[ex expat]

all I can add re the taste test is that when you reach the heart of the run there is no taste but before and after the heart you can notice an unpleasant taste and smell to the liquid

[Phantom]

Ah, well if that's the case, then I've been lucky.
With my sugar washes, it's just been the "alcohol evaporation" in the mouth/on the throat sort of taste, and with my distilled cider, the same as the sugar wash but with a distant hint of apples.
No hideous taste or horrible smell.
Bonus!

[HangOver]

I tend to bin the first 50 to 100 ml's and then run my table top device for the suggested 800 ml's (from 4 litres of wash)

So in a standard distilation you bin the first 50-100ml then collect 800ml after that.
Is there anything produced from the still after the 800ml?

If so what do you do with that bin it or re-distil next time?

Do you filter the 800ml before consumption?

[Jimmy]

For me, on a first run I bin 50ml and collect about 1 litre. The rest I throw away.
Think about it this way, you have 4000ml of liquid, at say 14% when it goes in. That means that 560ml of that is alcohol. If the still was 100% efficient, you could pull that out but as it is not, you get more non-alcohol out at the same time. What starts coming out will be at about 60% and then it'll drop off the more you collect. In this example, if you take 800ml you'll get about 49%, if you take 1 litre you'll get about 46%.
The key part is when what is coming out of your still is so weak that it is diluting your alcohol quickly - the overall ABV isn't dropping that fast, but you're not 'adding benefit' if you see what I mean, you're just adding weak, bad tasting alcohol to what was OK. If you stop at 800ml, what is coming out of the spout when you stop is about 39%. If you wait for 1 litre it's about 31% so although you have 46% overall it is dropping quite quickly.
Here's a real-world example - have you ever been in the bath whilst still running it, and you suddenly realise that the hot tap is actually putting cold water in and making your bath COLDER not warmer? Similar sort of thing, once the alcohol starts running out you're not gaining anything by leaving it going.
Anyhow, back to the example - say you take 800ml at 49% - that means that half of that (near enough) is alcohol, so 400ml. Compare that to what we had originally (560ml) - that means that what is left in the still is about 3.2 litres of liquid with 160ml of alcohol in it. That means that it's 5% or thereabouts. If you put that into a still, the very first (i.e. strongest) stuff you'd get out of it would be 32% and it would tail off fast from there. There's no way to make it stronger without either re-fermenting it or distilling it, and I don't find that it's worth the hassle for that little gain.
Finally, why do I leave mine longer when the quality has dropped off? Because I tend to re-distill, so I want to take more in the initial run and go for quality later - also, taking 1 litre makes it simple to redistill 4 runs for the second batch.

[bluecap]

I Chuck the first 20 ml and take 1.5 litre of which is 52%, i only put it through the still once and it seems fine.
That though is making sure the wash is 20%, i always use 48 turbo but use 8.5 kilo of sugar rather than the 8 it says on the packet as it says between 18 and 20% alcohol I’m pretty sure 20% is impossible with 8 kilo as 8 seems to max out at 18%.
I ferment it like i would a wine at about 70 to 75 degrees using a fishtank type heater this make the finished wash have almost no smell.
I used a brew belt to heat it on my first attempt and the finished wash stank rotten (if stanks a word)
Is there anything to be gained from chucking the first 100 ml?, from all i have read there is only need to chuck the first 20 ml but as they say don’t believe everything you read on the internet.
Here’s a calculator that might be of interest.
http://www.homedistiller.org/pot_calc.htm
The settings for easystill
Initial Volume of Wash 4 L

Alcohol Content % by (whatever the alcohol content of the wash)

Initial Temperature C optional (it just tells you how long heating up time is)

Power during Heat-up 320 W

Power during Distillation 320W

%Internal Reflux 25%

Time-step for calculation 20 min

[quietman]

I chuck away the first 20ml, then collect 800ml at almost exactly 60%abv every time. Frankly the smell from what's left in the easystill after that is minging, so it's an easy call to stop there. It is a fact of this hobby (I'm learning) that you have to throw this crap away no matter how hard it is to do so, I tried once to go up to a litre but the extra 200 tasted and smelt so rough that I was glad I made a cut at 800 before continuing.
Regards, Q

[quietman]

Hello Bluecap,
When you redistill the 1.5l @52% how much do you end up with and what is the final abv?
Regards, Q

[bluecap]

Hi quietman
I don't re-distill it at 52% i just drink it but mixed 50/50 with ginger ale or something.

[quietman]

sorry bluecap, I've just re read your post and now realise I read it wrong, sorry.
Regards, Q

[umpa]

Hi guys,
Been reading this thread and would like to ask -
If you intend to re-distill,is it ok to leave the heads and the tails in, as when you do your final distill you take them out then ?
The reason I ask is because I have a really bad brew of beer that I am distilling into whisky, and i have 40 pints of the stuff, doing it in 2ltr (4 bottle) batches I have been running the machine till I get 800ml, storing it and doing another 800ml. The plan was then to re-distill it removing the heads from the final go putting it though the activated carbon & get arround 45% or more.
is it OK to do that ? or must the heads be removed first - iam i right in thinking doing it my way will result in me needing to remove more heads - say 100ml from the final still ?
thanx
Ian

[alan]

Ian you should be ok doing it that way, make sure you degas the beer first. I would only take off 10-15ml as heads thencollect 500ml from each run that way you should get around 40%