Cachaca - cane spirit

[Mr Four Square]

Just tried my latest 40% batch. I'm still bit uncertain about the amount of oak I should be using but I'll get there . This cachaca is hard won and precious to me so I'm reluctant to stuff it by adding the wrong amount of oak. I used 4 X 10gm lightly toasted oak sticks I'd roasted myself. The oak quickly bled out and next morning I halved the quantity then tried it again. A few more days and I pulled them all out. Again the oak flavour and the colour came out quicker than I expected

Had a taste tonight ( maybe 2 months old) and it's dee licious. Thanks RJ it's a great drop. Might leave just one stick in there for a few more weeks to see what it becomes.

[RumJohn]

@ Mr Four Square: I am delighted you are happy with your cachaca results.

You can over oak. Make sure you oak is well seasoned prior to toasting.

I store my product in 50L milk cans and it sits on oak until the unit is empty. I have some of my Taipan Rum that is 5 or 6 years old and is still ageing. It is superb.

I encourage you to get ahead of yourself so you can put product aside for extended periods of time. It must remain on wood though. Once bottled the ageing stops.

[RumJohn]

@ Mr Four Square: Sorry mate. Just saw an old post of your posts.

Cachaca makes a great mix for summer cocktails. Very refreshing. Fun to see people claim they are so easy to drink, etc. And be legless before they know it.

And yes - this is a business for me. My only source of income.

[Mr Four Square]

I was sampling my way through the ever growing booze mountain in the garage ... anyone making cachaca must keep the feints to one side...they make an excellent Vodka !

[Mr Four Square]

Hi RJ I just stripped another 50. I've got the wash the stilling and the cuts sorted.

Its the oaking process I'm still refining. Your instructions are clear. Light oak at 40%. 3 months plus.

I looked at those spirals you use and scaled for my quantities. I made up some small light toasted dominoes that seemed to suit but it quickly over oaked

I found this post on another forum where a stiller has calculated that this is of the per litre amount of oak a large commercial rum distiller uses.
I've put 6 litres down at this ratio.

Oak per litre


Regarding the oaking at 40%. You mentioned that cachaca is traditionally white and this style was just what you developed.

Did you try darker toasts ?
How did you come up with the 40%

The experienced run makers are insisting it must be 65% and I just tell them it works for you. How did you arrive at that lower number?

[RumJohn]

@Mr Four Square: Your last comment re. "experienced distillers" made me chuckle. However, to answer your questions:-

I age at 40% because that is what my end product is. At 65% you will pull out flavors that are slightly different (think cooking and more heat) which may or may not be suitable. Rum used to be shipped at the final ABV%. Motion on a ship or mule would give it a bit of a stir.. Half of what you read on here is worthless. I do most of my procedures the old way. It works as it has for centuries.


You stripped then aged. Did you not do a spirit run? It will improve your product. What was the ABV% of the 6L? It would seem a little short at 6L.

I use 4 spirals per 50L at 40% ABV. Cachaca taste is too delicate for darker toasts. For rum, not a problem.

Ageing at 65% or some such thing and then taking down to 40% leaves too much room to cock things up. When the white product is right, then age.

The nice thing about making rum is that you have flexibility in what can be considered the final product. You don't have that flexibility with gin and vodka.

Keep up the good work, mate.

[Easydrinker]

@Mr Four Square: Your last comment re. "experienced distillers" made me chuckle. However, to answer your questions:-

Half of what you read on here is worthless. I do most of my procedures the old way. It works as it has for centuries.


You stripped then aged. Did you not do a spirit run? It will improve your product. What was the ABV% of the 6L? It would seem a little short at 6L.

Ageing at 65% or some such thing and then taking down to 40% leaves too much room to cock things up. When the white product is right, then age.

The nice thing about making rum is that you have flexibility in what can be considered the final product. You don't have that flexibility with gin and vodka.

Keep up the good work, mate.

I have edited this re-post somewhat,to keep in the salient points,and hope RJ forgives me,as I suspect he sometimes doesn't.
Here is a man than makes alcohol for a living,sharing time.
And it was "Half of what you read on here is worthless" that brought this reply.
That made ME chuckle.
It must be way more than half!

Robert.

[Mr Four Square]

Oh Robert you do make us laugh.

Everything you say makes perfect sense RJ. Yes I double distill. Strip then run.

Yep just over 5 litres is my pretty constant final spirit from 50 litres wash. I make 50 so I can stay well clear of the lees.

1.07 wash
46 litres in the boiler ( 2 x 23 litre )
Strip and collect down to 30%
Gives me 9 litres
Slow spirit run gives me just over 5 litres @ 40% after cuts.

I keep the feints for making beautiful Golden Syrup Vodka so even if my cuts are a little conservative I get it all back.

What do you think I should be getting ?

[RumJohn]

@EasyD: I have no idea why you felt it was necessary to edit my post. There were no insults or swearing. I was more politically correct than I usually am. I have to state therefore that you were out of line in doing so. You had no right.

The paragraph you deleted was written is response to questions put forth by a member of this site. I know you make many responses just for the hell of it. That is your choice. But leave mine alone, especially when so often you are incorrect.

@ Mr Four Square: Assuming you get this - give me a few more numbers, e.g. final SG, ABV% of what was collected on both strip and spirit runs and anything else that comes to mind. Heads you collected. A bit tough to do long distance but there may be some room to tweak the results.

The important thing is that you are happy with the results.

[Mr Four Square]

@EasyD: I have no idea why you felt it was necessary to edit my post. There were no insults or swearing. I was more politically correct than I usually am. I have to state therefore that you were out of line in doing so. You had no right. The paragraph you deleted was written is response to questions put forth by a member of this site. I know you make many responses just for the hell of it. That is your choice. But leave mine alone, especially when so often you are incorrect.

I agree not a good call ED

"@ Mr Four Square: Assuming you get this - give me a few more numbers"

50 litre wash
OG = 1.07
FG = 0.95
ABV% of what was collected on strip = 46% (8.5 litres)
and spirit runs = 80% (4.8 litres - rest to tails)
That 80% seems high but it's what my notes say

100ml fores
800ml heads
4 litres hearts
Remainder to the feints jar

I collect and air in 24x 200ml jars. Another distiller ( experienced) and I do the cuts

[Mr Four Square]

What %ABV do you put in the boiler for the spirit run?

I've always diluted to 30% for safety reasons. The T500 has a concealed element so maybe it doesn't really matter. I've also heard that it gives better separation for cuts but never seen the science behind that.

If I dilute to 40% I'll be shorting up my stilling and boil times. Any known downside ?

[Easydrinker]

Sorry to have offended you guys, and maybe if you re read the posts you will realise that was not my intention.
I didn't edit the original post,only my reposting of it.

Robert.

[RumJohn]

@ Mr Four Square: By my calculations:-

Your wash should have been around 50L @ 9-9.5% ABV give or take. I will take it as 9%.

Low wine at 46% = 9.8L
High wine at 80% = 5.6L
Therefore should achieve about 11L @ 40%

Your %ABV for low and then high wines is consistent with my runs.

I feel you are a little aggressive on your cuts. A sugar wash has minimal heads if any. I discard about 100 ml, just in case, and to clear the stills throat.

My spirit run is not much more than a polisher. I leave about 5% ABV in the boiler when done. It is very clean.

Hope it helps.

[Mr Four Square]

I feel you are a little aggressive on your cuts. A sugar wash has minimal heads if any. I discard about 100 ml, just in case, and to clear the stills throat. My spirit run is not much more than a polisher. I leave about 5% ABV in the boiler when done. It is very clean.

That sounds like I'm doing it (mostly) right then.

This is already the biggest hearts cut on anything I do on the pot still. And you reckon I can dig a little deeper into the heads ?

When you consider the wide cut and the fantastic feints you get a lot for your $

I'll check out the ABV left in the boiler like you suggest. Once I've finished with the spirit cut I just run it into the feints jar till the output is down to a trickle.

[RumJohn]

@Mr Four Square: For sure your doing it right. No question. I am just suggesting you could pull a little more out of it.

On both runs, I discard the first bit, then start collecting until I stop. I don't mess with tails/feints. Not worth it to me. When I make the final cut, it is a wrap. What you are able to collect and ultimately utilize, is not worth the time, energy or trouble.

If your questioning my technique, try letting what you collected breath a few days. You will get a different result.