Other than distilling, is it illegal to isolate alcohol from sugar mash?

[guymark]

Before you think I am on about freeze/thaw I\'m not.
I also am not suggesting for a moment that people do this method - it is a DISTILLING forum after all - I was just curious about a legal point - and also a \"will it work\" point too.
It all started with me thinking about alternative ways of separating materials.
I was wondering if there were any non-toxic chemicals which dissolve into ethanol but not water - or the other way around. Ideally, dissolving into water and leaving clean ethanol behind.
Apprently there is. Not only that it is cheap but as a good bonus, you can dry out the water and use it again anyway.
The chemical? Common or garden rocksalt - as per dishwasher / water softener and about £2 for 3 Kg (which is just as well as it will need quite a lot to absorb all the water in a 25 litre brew.
Of course it will also concentrate everything else that remains after the water is taken - but if this is a cleaered, settled mash made with just sugar and water, I suspect there will not be too many contaminents after settling, fining and filtering.
Not seriously proposing to do this to sugar mash - just intrigued as to a legal loophole to get high strength spirits.
I am going to have a little play and see if it is a way to at least take weak distilled spirits of under 20% into 80% salty water with the top fifth layer being a nice clear almost 100% ethanol floating on top.
Dismal failure or happy success, I will report back. Of course having made almost 100% ethanol it will immeidately be diluted back down again (so a pointless excercise perhaps), but be interesting to know if it can be done anyway.
Having found it works at least in theory, I did some googling and found this - which shows both the salt system and others too.
If too off-topic then my apologies to the moderator, I just felt it might be of academic interest to some folks - especially those that want reflux strength spirits from a pot still.
Mark

[guymark]

forgot the link - sorry! http://gillesenergies.webs.com/dehydration.htm

[Jimmy]

No, this kind of crazy shenanigans is just what we like around here, keep us posted!

[bluecap]

Interesting post, I seem to remember reading somewhere that plaster of paris is used somehow to remove the last bit of water after distilling enabling the end result pure enough to fuel a car.

[guymark]

Ok, the news is mixed - both good and bad. First the bad, the end product contains enough salt to make it very unpleasant to drink - and although the salt in the water can be re-used once dried, it still requires a vast amount to do more than a small quantity at a time.
To make the test a little easier to monitor (just alcohol and water) I used some weak spirits rather than raw mash for this test.
The \"feedstock\" I gave it was diluted down to 30% with distilled water - I am not able to get a good \"after reading\" as the salt of course makes a difference to the hydrometer reading - however I can confirm that after being salt-dried, if you pour it into a spoon you can light it easily.
One interesting aspect is that salt apepars (work of others not me) to have more of an afinity to methanol than ethanol - so albeit only present in miniscule (if any) amounts with most home brews, if there WAS a small amount, the salt certainly wouldn\'t have an advere effect.
The good news is that it has had me searching for something better and I think Sodium Sulphate might be the answer. Harmless (unless breathed as a dust or dumped in the eyes) at which point is nasty in the same way as you wouldn\'t put salt in your eyes. Sodium sulphate though is apparently TOTALLY insoluble in ethanol however - as opposed to salt which is SLIGHTLY soluble.
Once again the sodium sulphate can be re-used once dried.
Short of setting up a very large drying tower with perhaps the best part of 25-100Kg of salt / sodium sulphate, I am not convinced it is a practical way of taking mash to the bottle without a still. I do think they might be able to compliment each other well though.
Although I will repeat my experiment when I get hold of the sodium sulphate, I think this method of drying may have its place if you want very high purity ethanol from a pot still by the following steps (which again I will test when I get the sodium sulphate)
Pass 1 > 60% - 65%

Pass 2 > 75% - 80%

Pass 3 > 85%

>> drying with salt to make much stronger in ethanol content but alas salty

Pass 4 to leave salt behind in the still and give the highest possible output.
I am also going to do a small sample of mash with a high salt load simply to see if it doesn\'t hinder alcohol boiling off but retards the watercoming off - as salt water boils at a higher temperature. Not sure if there is merit in the logic or not, but will risk 5 litres of mash half way through the next run of 5 > 6 to see what efect it has on yield, strength and flavour.
Sorry I do not have more accurate figures yet - or more promising results with the salt, but at least the sodium sulphate looks like it might help - especially if followed by a distillation process too.
Will keep you posted when I know more but it might take a week or so for the sulphate to arrive.
Mark