T500 question (While my first run is running no less!)

[Echo4golf]

So I've got my first batch of lentil in the T500. I put the copper pieces in the top of the column, SS in the middle, down to the water out, and then copper mesh.

I got everything up to temp, let is reflux for 15 minutes @40C, and ran it up to 50. Then 60. Then 70. Finally got some product there. Waited a bit and it was very slow. I shut down, pulled some packing, reset the column, and restarted. Same deal.

Repeated. Same deal.

I've got the still running now, stabilized at about 82C on the thermometer and am seeing about 2 drops a second. The rate is running up and down. If I run the temp to 90, I get a very thin stream. The distillate is quite cool either way. Do I have a bad thermometer and around 70%ABV right now? I'm thinking of boiling a cup of water and checking. What else?

[Easydrinker]

Sorry, I feel your pain, but will take a step back while someone with more experience of the T500 comes in.

ATB.

Robert.

[Echo4golf]

Follow up: I wound up shutting down for a bit. I'm going to pull the copper mesh out and replace it with SS, I've got some tails to put in and I'll probably put the distillate back as well and start from scratch later this evening. It's all good. This wasn't necessarily a sacrificial wash, but it is the first run on this still, and my first non-air-still run as well. And, come to think of it, I've only got about a dozen on that one.

Best,
Jerry

[Easydrinker]

Keep plugging away there, things usually get better.
And every run is a thing to learn from.
ATB

Robert.

[Echo4golf]

Thanks Robert. Agreed. I also found the thread that I remembered about temperature issues. Basically it says ignore the temp and go for the correct flow rate. I kind of surmised as much when the distillate was so cool. Other threads talk about speeding up the still and collecting a warm product. I'll light it off agiain later and see what happens.

J

[Echo4golf]

And... Having reset everything, the still is running nicely at 94-95. I have a steady stream of product that is now lukewarm. I'll probably want to run it slower for the spirit run but this is more what I was expecting. I'm also up against an issue with the wash. I'll post more after the run completes.

[Easydrinker]

Yee ha!
However that is spelt!

Hope that you are done and relaxed by now.
Let us know how it went.


Robert.

[Icefever]

A lot of guys run a stripping run flat out...all your doing is taking any "likker" out of the wash to make low wines...

When it comes to the spirit run you go as slow as possible..this is where the fores, heads, hearts & tails come into it...some guys say a drip a sec is cock on.

[Phantom]

See, when I run my T500, it's set up as "bog standard" and while I like to mess with double distilling etc(distill once, removing foreshots, let it finish then let the spirit down to <40% with RO water, then redistill before letting down to exactly 40% before carbon filtering), I get 94% ABV out of it all the time.

That's with the copper at the top of the column and ceramic "saddles" for the rest. I've tried using copper mesh with my previous SS super reflux and it was a bit of a nuisance i.e. either packed too loose or too tightly and constantly got variable results.

I don't really want to try copper mesh in a T500 column as it's too easy to damage the non-metal parts of it, either by excessive heating or how the mesh is packed/inserted.

If you wanted to try better packing to the ceramic saddles, I'd say SPP would be best as it can be "poured" in like the ceramics, shaken/rattled to seat it properly and you may then only need something to retain it at the bottom (I suspect some sort of stainless mesh inside the screw fitting/mouting. Maybe it might be possible to use copper mesh or a stainless scrubber to retain the SPP as it wouldn't need to be stuffed in there too tightly just to keep it in place having little to no effect on the vapour path.

As for my thermometers, when the still is running it sits nicely at temp, somewhere between 55 and 65 C as per the makers guide/instructions (don't do the counting of drips etc, but a full charge of 25 litres takes about 4.5 hours to run).

I'm thinking that if you wanted to play with scrubbers/mesh whether stainless or copper, you'd be better placed building a column designed for it rather than trying to use the T500 tubes - SPP should work (pretty sure someone else has already tried it) but may depend on the size of the pieces as to how easy it is to use.

The only issue I actually get with the still, is that you need a caravan water pressure stabilising valve between the mains inlet and the needle valve, otherwise the tiniest of adjustments of the needle valve (a 16th of a turn or thereabouts) can make the temperature swing by as much as 5 degrees.

Dunno if any of that is of any use or not.........

[Seagull]

I've recently run my first run with the Still Spirits stainless steel saddles. I also put a new packet of the copper saddles at the top of the column. After aan initial period of difficulty in keeping the temperature steady, I quickly adjusted to the new stainless steel packing.

I'm pretty happy with the new saddles but at £9 for the copper saddles and £20 for the stainless steel, it isn't the most cost effective option.

As for controlling the temperature, I have found the Still Spirits water flow regulator an absolute godsend. Only problem is that they aren't available in the UK so I had to order from NZ and Oz. I ended having to pay import duty on the one from Oz.

[Mr Four Square]

No need for a needle valve. Use a gate valve. It works much better and is available from your hardware store. You will need to get creative to connect the small T500 water hose to the gate valve but you can do it.

A garden hose goes on to one side to feed mains pressure . The gate valve gives excellent control over flow. Far better than the needle valve which can be too fine to get to your starting temperature.

The gate valve makes the large adjustments and the small ones you need to fine tune as the run proceeds.

At the moment I have the needle valve fitted just because I'd already bought it. This set up really works. If you already have the needle valve then you can use the same set up as is in the photo

[Phantom]

Supplied with the needle valve as standard AFAIK (well mine was).

Dunno if the gate valve works as a secondary flow control or not. The flow valves used for caravans work taking the stress of mains pressure off the needle Vv so it works smoothly and as intended.........

[Echo4golf]

A quick follow up... I got through the second go-round with that wash and wound up with very little ethanol. I think that the fermentation stalled and the yeast died off. I didn't mind trying to run it anyway as it was the first go-round for my T-500.

Lessons Learned:

-The flow control is indeed tetchy. No surprise but what the heck. At the same time, I didn't have enough issues to make it worth replacing yet. The gate valve goes pretty low on the list. (After the pot still head...)

-Ignore the silly thermometer as a rule. Higher up on the list goes figuring out how to mount a thermometer at the top of the column.

-Want pot still head. Soon!

-Need to tighten up the insulation jacket.

-Insulate the lid too.

-The insulated boiler works well to mash in. Especially once I found an appropriate thing to stir with... (Barbecue spatula.)

Best,
Jerry

[Seagull]

If you had a stalled fermentation, I'd reckon that could be the foundation of all the problems you encountered. Did you take an SG reading with a hydrometer before running?

That's my 2p worth. Will let the guys with the real knowledge pick this up.

[Mr Four Square]

That's a pretty good list EG. Getting hold of a pot head will kick your makings up a level. The little Still Spirits style ones will only hold you back. I strongly suggest you get one made. There are some good plans on the site or someone here with copper skills may offer you a deal.

Soon as you have one you'll be stripping washes and running some pretty clean neutrals through the column.

Yes temp control on the T500 is very twitchy. Told you how I fixed mine. I doubt it would cost much more than 10 pounds to build and as you've got the needle valve its all as per the photo. Have a few sessions of madly chasing the flow temps up and down like a mad see saw and you might be ready to give it a go