StillSmart

25% of the total distillate seems to be a lot?


Edit:
The original question was something like.... I am losing 25% of distillate to heads, due to smearing. Would a power controller help.

Hi needmorestuff

I use a power controller, most people do once you get going, I can see how running low power might help with heads separation in that you only want to boil the most volitle compounds off with out the alcohol, the reality of it is, I fear it will take a painstakingly long time to collect the heads and for only a minimal improvement in yield.

I find upto the first 30% to be heads from a sugar wash and the last 20% to be tails, leaving 50% in the middle as hearts. Sounds very wastefull I know!!

Let’s say you have your boiler charge of 7 litres at 92% watered down to 30% for you spirit run.

If your collecting at 92% then the math is simple, you will have 3.5 litres of hearts after 2.1 litres of heads, the last 1.4 litres doesn’t need to be collected

It’s worth noting that it’s not worth collecting the tails from a neutral run, so if you keep track of how much of your total alcohol you’ve collected during the run, you can stop collecting when you have 20% of your starting charge still in the boiler, this will save you some time and power.

You may decide your happy with your numbers and only cut 25% as heads and collect 57% as hearts, the process is still the same.

I don’t have a T500 and have never used one but I would suggest a different operating method with a power controller, I believe it’s a 2kw heating element, I would set the power to say 1300 - 1500 watt, and adjust the cooling so it’s in full reflux, after a stabilisation period reduce the cooling so your collecting just a few drops a second, leave it like this until you’ve collected about half of your heads, you will find the output slows continuously throughout the run.

This is because the easy to boil off alcohols with the lowest boiling points are being replaced by heavier alcohols that have higher boiling points.

So at this point you could increase you power slightly to speed things up a little, but don’t go to full power until your into your hearts collection.

Also worth noting that once you’ve initially set your cooling you shouldn’t need to touch it again, use the power controller.

Don’t worry about the numbers displayed on the temp probe from the cooling water, they are simply numbers, and will be different on every run anyway as your mains cold water will change throughout the year, I personally think it’s a very crude way to aim for the same temp range throughout the year with vastly different input water temps, Still Spirits used to include a second thermometer at the top of the column, why they removed this in favour of the other one, I have no idea!!!

Robert.

I know this is related to a T500 but power control will help.

If you were using a 2" column with 48" of packing you might be looking at stabilizing and heads removal at 700w and your target would be to get the heads volume down to 10%.

If you can use power management then it should provide an increase in performance.

This subject has SO been on my mind today.
Tonight/early this morning I have a neutral spirit run going.
Yes, I am still awake.
My odd/home built column still, requiring air cooling is a step from the norm.
It is essentially a power management still.
The outside air being -3°C tonight, the power is a little higher than usual.
Normally I would expect fores/heads to be about 15 + % of the wash.
Going by taste and, smell.
A new wash tonight, but the alcohol percentage should be the same.

Robert.

I soooo want time to build one of those.

Easydrinker wrote:My odd/home built column still, requiring air cooling is a step from the norm.
It is essentially a power management still.

Robert.

Are you referring to the VSS?

I admire you for persisting with that. I mostly use re-circulating water cooled tube and shell condensers these days.

That VSS style definitely has a valid place though if you have the air temperatures to make it viable. I have kept hold of some copper coils in 1" diameter tube just in case.

I still haven't found a real use for my monster worm but I am keeping it with a view to using it as an air cooled product condenser - possibly on a small Gin still.

Hi Myles,
Yes, I continue to use the VSS.
Partly laziness, partly because the pond just outside my residence which I have lined up for a very grand re-circ. system, has been dug deeper twice in the last two years and we keep hitting field drains which empty it every dry spell.
When we find the latest leak, I may consider a change of condenser.

There is a strange fascination in watching product run from a very large length of copper.
Like yourself, I do not just do this for the product.
ATB.

Robert.

Anavrin wrote:
I find upto the first 30% to be heads from a sugar wash and the last 20% to be tails, leaving 50% in the middle as hearts. Sounds very wastefull I know!!

Let’s say you have your boiler charge of 7 litres at 92% watered down to 30% for you spirit run.

If your collecting at 92% then the math is simple, you will have 3.5 litres of hearts after 2.1 litres of heads, the last 1.4 litres doesn’t need to be collected

I'm curious how it is you worked this out. (I'm thick)

7L at 92% gives you 7.6L of total liquid by volume.

50% of this is 3.8L. 30% is 2.3L. 20% is 1.5L.

Am I missing something here? If I have a 24L wash at 13% And I want to know the total amount of distillate possible do I do the maths at 100% or the max achievable 96.5%, or what I collect at? 93%

I can never detect the transition from heads to hearts, I've been trying for a year, I get the tails, but not the heads to hearts.

So can I work out the total amount of distillate in my boiler and extrapolate these percentages for my cuts? At least until I get the hang of detecting myself. I still always try.

Marc.

There is some generic guidance for the two extreme situations. A pot still and a fully tuned reflux still.

Every other still is somewhere in between.

Reflux still = if you get your heads cut to be within 10% by volume of the total collected then you are doing good. Off course this means you also need to collect the tails, and once you have that worked out then most folks do not bother. The tails on a full reflux column are fairly offensive and honestly not worth collecting.

On a pot still. 28% boiler charge for Cognac. Heads 2.3%, 1st quality Hearts 66%, 2nd quality hearts 15.5%, Tails 14%

Bear in mind this is Cognac. I would expect the heads cut for a home distiller to be more generous.

If you wish to go by the parrot instead on the pot still, then anything above 75% ABV is fores and heads.

These are just guidelines but they should get you close to the cuts. Final decision for what to keep should be by taste and smell.

I should point out I have a kind of reflux still.

Myles wrote:There is some generic guidance for the two extreme situations. A pot still and a fully tuned reflux still.

Every other still is somewhere in between.

Reflux still = if you get your heads cut to be within 10% by volume of the total collected then you are doing good. Off course this means you also need to collect the tails, and once you have that worked out then most folks do not bother. The tails on a full reflux column are fairly offensive and honestly not worth collecting.

On a pot still. 28% boiler charge for Cognac. Heads 2.3%, 1st quality Hearts 66%, 2nd quality hearts 15.5%, Tails 14%

Bear in mind this is Cognac. I would expect the heads cut for a home distiller to be more generous.

If you wish to go by the parrot instead on the pot still, then anything above 75% ABV is fores and heads.

These are just guidelines but they should get you close to the cuts. Final decision for what to keep should be by taste and smell.

Well this helps me affirm my own product.
My neutral spirits runs, using the VSS do produce hearts after around 15% of total alcohol.
Unless I turn the heat up in the boiler towards the end of the run, tails do not even appear.

I ran a heads run recently.
Basically just watered a bunch down to sub 30%.
I ended up with around 10% by total volume of palatable ethanol.
33 units from 352

This may be the last heads run that I ever do. The time and effort were just not worth it. Heads in future may go straight to BBQ lighting fluid.

Robert.

I know what you mean.
I have made an arbitrary decision that I am going to store my feints and use 10% feints to 90% wash on my strip runs. That will use up some.

I don't need much neutral but when I do I will just load the boiler with feints and be prepared for a long slow run on the packed column.

I think the only feints that I will persevere with will be the ones from whisky.
They seem to deliver.

Safe storage there.

Robert.

Just used the power controller for my first time. Did a corn spirit run.....bloody fantastic! Best 10 quid I’ve spent. Easy to isolate fores and keep a temp steady