StillSmart

Hello all and Happy 2014,

I'm Mike P, a transplanted yank currently living in NZ. Been reading the board and trying to absorb as much as possible for my first distillation.

After reading many forum posts recommending against using the Turbo's (and also not wanting a bad smell to put off the Mrs) I decided that my first ever attempt should be a Tomato Paste Wash.

Having made that decision I have a brand new, yet to be used Air Still and a Birdwatchers TPW currently nearing the end of its fermentation. Its been happily bubbling away for 5 days now, and is now at the point where the intensity and frequency of the bubbling is beginning to diminish. Stats on the wash are as follows;

25 liters total
5 kg sugar
1/4 tsp citric acid
200 gms Leggo non salt tomato paste
80 gms Edmonds Active Yeast all purpose
OG (before yeast added) of 1650

After doing lots of reading here I understand the importance of doing a stripping run and then a spirit run. Question for the gurus of the board - given the stats on the wash I noted above, how much of each Air Still 4 liter run should I take before combining those amounts, and diluting to 40% ABV for the spirit runs. After reading quite a bit here I'm assuming it will be somewhere between 700 and 1300 ml - but thats a heck of a wide range.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance and again, a very Happy New Year to all forum participants and readers.

Mike P

Hi Mike,

Welcome! Where in NZ are you currently? I have a good friend in Christchurch.

5Kg of sugar in 25L is the wash that I usually use. It allows for 1L of sludge to get tossed and leaves you with 6 x 4L stripping runs. I pull off about 1.3L from each. I then combine three of these and a bit of water to make two spirit runs. Personally, I don't get too fussed about diluting to exactly 30% or 40% or whatever number you are trying to hit. My aim is more to finish a wash in 6 stripping and two spirit runs. 30% might get some better separation, but in my experience, the minimal difference is not worth the extra work and aggravation. I'd rather make tighter cuts and more washes.

Save the heads. I've been mixing two litres of head with 1/2 cup of baking soda and topping up to 4L with boiling water. It fizzes nicely and the next day you can run it again and squeeze out some more alcohol. I am going to try using less heads and more baking soda and water to see if I can break out more of the alcohol.


Chuck

Hi Chuck,

Thank you for the welcome and the response. Thats exactly what I needed to know. Much appreciated.

I'm sure there will be many more questions as I get ready to do this, but that was the first one that came to mind.

Re your question - I'm in Rotorua. Quite a bit removed from my original hometown of NYC. :-)

Thanks again for the info.

All the best,

Mike P

Welcome to the forum Mikepiet....what a way to start off a new year..

Icefever

Hi again Chuck,

In re-reading your answer I found another question. Since you use the same wash mixture, are the cuts always the same - if so, are you just taking a set number of mils to define each cut, or is it more involved and every wash different? If its the former, where do you usually make the cuts. If the later, obviously its more an art form and judgement call specific to each individual wash. A skill I'll have to develop over time I guess.

Ah - and another. How long does your ferment usually take - I guess thats a function of temperature as much as anything. I've been keeping this wash between 24 and 30 C for the entire 5 days that its been running. As I said the bubbling is starting to wane a bit - I haven't opened it up to test the gravity yet but I figure a day or so and thats next.

Anyway thanks in advance - and if I become a pain in the butt with questions just smack me with a rolled up newspaper and I'll go away. :-)

All the best.

Mike P

Hi Icefever - thank you much sir. Yup, couldn't agree more. Always fun when you start something new - which may become quite addictive (in a good way of course) - lol.

All the best,

Mike P

It does get addictive.. I've been brewing beer for years & years, got back into wine making 2013. Had the Airstill for a year & half just doing sugar wash's...then found this forum and realized what I can do and more.

For making cuts from the Airstill read this download/file.php?id=69

Next, the volume you take from each stripping run should only be determined by the ABV of the distillate coming from the still. In the Airstill Guide I published here I recommend collecting distillate on the stripping runs until the ABV dips just below 20% - beyond that is a waste of electricity

The Airstill is a good learning still but it has it's limitations. One of it's limitations is that if you try to rush it or take shortcuts you will get by but you won't get the best possible from your Airstill.

The reason for diluting the low wines to 30% is that this has been found to be the most favourable strength to allow best separation of ethanol from the rest of the crap you don't want, and therefore best outcome on the Spirit Runs. You can limit yourself to two spirit runs by keeping the ABV you dilute to at higher levels but, again, you will not be getting the best from your Airstill. Note: we're not talking theoretical 'best' here but an actual, discernible better outcome.

Given that the Airstill is not very efficient I found, over years of using it, that almost anything that improves the quality of the final Spirit is worth doing, even if it takes a little longer

Best Practice with the Airstill runs something like this;
Stripping Run - collect everything until flow dips just below 20%
Spirit Run - dilute Stripped wash (low wines) to 30% or enough to make 3X 4lt fills for your Airstill and follow the Airstill Guide here download/file.php?id=60
Spirit cuts according to your taste or following the Cuts Guide.

With a little experience you'll soon outgrow these guides but I recommend starting there and before long you'll learn how to adjust these procedures to suit exactly what you want but I believe it's very important to ride the learning curve yourself in the beginning

Best of luck with your first steps and the New Year

AM

Hi Aidanmac,

Thank you much for the response and advice. And of course for the link to the spirits cuts for beginners file. I had already downloaded the Airstill Guide file and have read it repeatedly. A hard copy sits next to the Air Still :-). I do believe your cuts guide will be taking a place next to it.

There is still a lot I have to read and digest and I do appreciate all of the advice and help my 2 small posts here have already generated. Its a learning curve and as with anything else best done with hands on rather than just reading about it.

As it appears my TPW wash is reaching the end stages of fermentation, a question popped up regarding clearing. Is it best to leave the wash at room temperature till it clears or would adding a chilled water bath around the fermenter help. Also any idea of an average time frame to clear adequately would be of help.

Again - thanks much for the response and assistance. Have a great 2014.

All the best,

Mike P

Clearing is best done at cold temperature, the colder the better

My procedure is as follows;
1 Siphon the wash to a clean fermenter leaving the yeast slurry behind,
2 Degassed the wash.
3 Use a clearing agent add this and leave for 24 hours. I use Sparkolloid if I'm in a hurry

The Airstill will give best return if the wash is cleared completely.

AM

mikepiet wrote:Since you use the same wash mixture, are the cuts always the same - if so, are you just taking a set number of mils to define each cut, or is it more involved and every wash different?

Ah - and another. How long does your ferment usually take - I guess thats a function of temperature as much as anything.

Fermenting is like gardening, you never know exactly what you will get in advance. So while I know from experience that I can take 1.3L in a stripping run and be "close enough", cuts are always done by taste. Using very hot water (not enough to burn your tongue, but hot) helps in discerning the good from the bad.

My ferment times are all over the place. I also experiment a lot with nutrients, temperatures, methods etc. About 5 days for the initial, vigorous ferment and maybe another 7 or so for the ferment to run to completion. I usually figure 15-20 days from pitching the yeast to being able to run it, including time to rack, degas, and clear. I usually rack to a second container after the initial fermentation dies down and the yeast starts to fall a bit. Then when the secondary fermentation slows, I degas and usually add a clearing agent. My best advice is to start several washes and let them wait for you, rather than you waiting for them.

Chuck

Hi Aidanmac, Chuck,

Thanks to both of you - exactly what I needed to know. Looks like I have a bit longer to wait then. The bubbling has slowed to once every 3 or 4 seconds, so I had thought that by the end of today the process might be finished - now I see that I need to let it run for quite a few more days. I'm thinking I might take a SG reading later today.

I have a packet of Turbo Clear from Still Spirits that I can use as a cleaning agent for the wash after I rack it to another container. (I can see I'm gonna have to get a second fermenter here).

I'll chill the racked wash to clear in a cold water bath. Its what I have been using to keep the wash between 25-30 degrees. Its actually been much easier to control the temp than I had anticipated.

Great help gents, many thanks. Will keep you advised as the process continues.

Chuck - Interesting garden analogy, as thats also something I have found quite enjoyable over the past 2 years - quite a change in activities here in Kiwi land, for a former New York City boy. (Also including a bit of mountain climbing as well - lol).

Thanks again guys - I'm sure more questions will follow. :-)

All the best,

Mike P

Good Morning everyone,

Just an update and a question if its ok ?

At 1 week and 20 hours into the ferment the bubbling is down to once every 5 or 6 seconds. I took an SG reading and I have gone from the original 1.065 to the current .992 which by the online calculator shows an ABV of 9.41%.

Question is, since its still bubbling should I leave it for another day or 2 or start chilling it down and clearing it now ?

Thanks in advance gents.

Mike P

Questions are always welcome!

It sounds like it is finished and the bubbling is just from the CO2 suspended in the wash. A vigorous stirring, done several times, will help to release it. I use something like this http://www.amazon.com/NorthernBrewer-Th ... sbs_misc_5 attached to a drill. Degassing it should result in no more bubbling and quicker clearing.

Chuck

Hi Chuck,

Thanks for that - I think you may be right. Stirred it up some when I took a liter out to check the SG.

I've seen that degasser and have made a poor man's version of my own - will sterilize it and give it a whirl. Here's a pic.

Thanks much, all the best,

Mike P