StillSmart

Yes,Thanks Frank
Informative and a well worthy post,maybe saved me a bit of time finding out the hard way.
Robert

Mate...all good, you're welcome and PLEASE help out with 'refining' this recipe as I know its very close to being a winner....and many hands make light work etc

Meanwhilst, I'm going to peatsmoke my grain (again) and 'fiddle' with the oaking a little (eg pre soak charred sticks in port/dry sherry).

My latest FSW variation follows....I reckon its my best yet (all things considered, not too difficult to achieve, methinks).

I used 2kg grain/3kg Pilsen LME/Safspirit whisky yeast per 20l as before.
This time, the grain was a 6row brewers malted courtesy of SBB he is not here (the provinance of which is a question he is best placed to help with). I spent a long time cracking it as thoroughly as I could in my kitchen wizz; which meant some dust (removed prior to mashing) but LOTS of cracked grain. I mashed @ 62Deg C for about an 45-55minutes (both time and temp trial courtesy of GTH findings 'on other forums
After plenty of sparging, I put a cupful of actual grain mash AND about 150g of light crystal malt (thanks Scarecrow) per 20l fermenter. I tried to kickoff the wash at around 28Deg C and hold it thereabouts for the entire ferment.

The ferments went very well and the wash had a different colour (reddish-brown), smell (definitely nutty) and taste (dry and grain/earthy on the palate) than previous FSW washes.

The stripruns were hasslefree and run @3lph max. I extracted 12l low wines from each 30l of wash....very tailish by then. I noticed a nutty smell here too, along with something toffee/caramel.

So 24l of lowwines, 4l of FSW feints and 7l of water made up my spirit run. The spirit run was not faster than 2lph from the fores onwards. I ended up with about 12l of spirit here and decided that about 7-8l were for oaking. I diluted this to 65% ABV and put in a combination of reuse charred and new heavy toast oaksticks. Two months in the demijohns coloured them up nicely.

Tastetest 1: wow, this is different to my experiments before. Really spicy/vanillan and a big grain mouthfeel. Also, smoother than I would've expected, at this stage.

Having emptied my barrel of existing FSW (bottled it, for drinking now and over the next few months) I refilled with this newly oaked spirit and now have about 20l @65% in there. That was six weeks ago.

Tastetest 2: I am very happy with the changes. I do miss the peaty undernotes of before BUT the overall taste is better layered (subtle,sweet initial hit->grain and spice in the mouth->dry finish) and smoother re 5-second mouthfeel.

3 months (minimum) in my barrel should make this a winner. :handgestures-fingerscrossed:

So......(and here's where the subjectivity/guesses hit 'overdrive') the 6row seemed to impart grainy (maybe dry) taste. it certainly appeared to add to the ferment/wash as did the longer mashing process. The use of crystal malt is a worthwhile consideration (although it does make it a bugger to fill your boiler). The use of heavy toast/charred sticks combo gives extra/complementary flavour profile.

Anyone whom can add some science to all this, please do....and I accept that this is now NOT on topic, re threadhead.

Hey Frank! long time no read

Sorry I haven't been around your neck of the woods lately but I've barely had enough time, since December, to keep up with traffic here.

Anyway, your post is timely for me as I am just preparing to start grain operations and I'm sure I'll be using LME as part of my recipes but the 6 Row Barley is a no-no here. Having said that, your methodology is very useful for me.

I note that Scotch distilleries age their Whisky mostly in used Bourbon barrels but I'm not sure if they re-toast them, any idea on this. As you know, some of us occasionally use chips from Jack Daniels barrels soaked in Neutral to produce a quite good second generation Jack Daniels by soaking the flavours out of the wood and this has had me wondering will the use of American White Oak only work in making Scotch if one is blending whiskeys aged in different previous use barrels i.e. Port or Wine barrels as well as the Bourbon ones?

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this subject as I prepare to launch into serious grain brewing and distilling

AM

aidanmac wrote:I note that Scotch distilleries age their Whisky mostly in used Bourbon barrels but I'm not sure if they re-toast them, any idea on this.

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Not asked to me, but I've been to 8 scotch distilleries in the past 3 years so I'll chime in.

Some do, some don't. They will use a first fill bourbon, then reuse the same barrels, then maybe again for a third time.

Others only use sherry, like glenfarclas, totally shunning that "horrible" 'Merican whiskey.

If a barrel need to be re-coppered then it will normally be re-charred to extend its life, is what I've seen at the speyside cooperage and the in house cooperage at Balvenie.

aidanmac wrote:
I note that Scotch distilleries age their Whisky mostly in used Bourbon barrels but I'm not sure if they re-toast them, any idea on this.

Capt-Cudellez wrote:
Some do, some don't. They will use a first fill bourbon, then reuse the same barrels, then maybe again for a third time. Others only use sherry, like glenfarclas, totally shunning that "horrible" 'Merican whiskey.

Thanks for the input CC, I've followed your reports of your visits to the various distilleries as you posted them but I was never quite sure if I was understanding the mechanics employed in ageing the whiskeys vis-a-vie the use of barrels from Sherry, Wine, Bourbon, Port!

As I said, we use neutral spirit and used bourbon barrel chunks to extract a flavour into the neutral that is nothing like any Scotch Whiskies I've ever tasted. So I was wondering do distilleries move the Whisky from one type of pre-used barrel to another to create their unique flavour profile or do they age them in whatever barrel and then blend the different outcomes to match the desired profile

I'm not a Scotch drinker, as of now, and I'm not going to be trying to re-create someone else's Whisky when I move over to grain but I do hope to produce a Scotch style Whisky much the same way as I now produce a very enjoyable Bourbon style Whisky which is more to my liking than any of the commercial offerings

AM

My understanding of single malt Scotch whisky is that the recipe of the wash,the pot still design,and the source of the water used to let the spirit down after aging are the main contributers to the taste.
Collecting the strip down to very low percentages may play a part,-the Islay distilleries collect to 1%,Bunnahabhain go lower.
The different barrels used can add something,hence the bottles sold as "Port wood Finish" etc,but most production runs are a mix from many different casks,from the same distllery,with the aim of ensuring the distinctive character of its product.

I found this fascinating,
http://distillers.tastylime.net/library ... tfiles.htm

Robert.

Edit;
By production run,I mean bottling run.
I don't know of a blended (non-single malt) Scotch that doesn't include some malt.
90% of all Scottish malt whisky distilled goes to blend with cheaper non malted whisky.

@Aidan
hi mate, anything I can add to your knowledge is a good thing indeed!

+1 CC. I know a lot of scotch is aged in Am Oak ex-bourbon barrels and these are the ones that were light toasted usually...., but some use Oloroso sherry, tawny port and even straight charred new barrels. I wouldnt expect any leave their hooch in a sherry or port cask for too long though. I am very fond of the quarter cask idea too, esp as they seem to be well aged/used.

It all depends on the profile one is after I expect. Having said that, I now reckon a combination of reuse alligator char and first use HT (or MT) gives a combination of dry and sweet notes (apologies if these terms are bollocks...but I trust you know what I mean) to a good grain spirit; and that'll do me, prior to barrelling.....my own triplewood.