Fermentation is stuck - SS classic turbo.

by **MrCat** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:31 pm

Morning all.
I\'ve got a batch of SS classic turbo yeast wash that is stuck. I\'m using 8kg of sugar and was very careful to wait for the wash to cool to 30 degrees before adding the yeast.
For the first 5 days the yeast was fermenting well, producing loads of gas etc. I was away at the weekend so when I checked it at the 8 day mark most of the gas had stopped. I left another day and checked with the hydrometer. It read about 1010. I gave the mix a gentle stir and put the fermenter lid back on.
I\'m now 11 days in, there is very little gas being produced. I checked it last night with the hydrometer and it\'s still reading 1010.
The air temperature is 20 to 22 degrees which is well within the specification for the yeast.
Any suggestions to get it restarted and down to about 990 so I can throw the turbo clear in ??
Thanks

by **Ronbo** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:54 pm

Hi MrCat,

First let me admit I have never used the SS classic turbo yeast. There are others on the site who will have and I\'m sure they will have a better informed opinion.

I note from the SS site that the yeast you are using is designed for 36 hours at 6kG sugar.

You are trying for 8kG -- have you tried it at the 6kG and was it successful?

If the yeast is not fit and well it will not be a happy worker!

Did you make sure that the wash was well aerated before you pitched the yeast?

The yeast needs plenty of oxygen during the first aerobic stage in order to multiply and produce more happy workers.

Only then (in the absence of free Oxygen, anaerobic stage) will the vastly increased workforce attack the sugar and start converting it into Ethanol.
You mention that the temperature of the wash was below 30C when you pitched the yeast.

How much below? If this yeast is anything like the Alcotec 48 then, after less than 24 hours, the temperature of the wash may be 10C warmer than ambient due to the exothermic reaction.

The yeast workforce will definitely go on strike if they are too hot!

Ciao.

by **Phantom** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:24 am

Yes, I\'m also thinking along the lines of too much sugar and that it\'s probably reached it\'s alcohol tolerance.
So, with a bit of maths, work out how much water goes with 2kg of sugar (allowing it to be 6kg per 21 litres of water), so that would normally be 7litres to 2 kg - hence you\'d need to be able to add a further 7litres - if that doesn\'t work i.e. it doesn\'t re-start with just the extra dilution, then you\'ll probably need to add a champagne yeast and some nutrients - but you\'d need to look up on one of the wine making websites about restarting stuck fermentations and follow the instructions.
It usually entails some water and some of the stuck ferment in a fermenter of some sort, add the yeast/nutrient, let it get bubbling, add more of the stuckie, let that get going, add more, etc etc until you\'ve got something like between 1/3 and 1/2 of the stuckie refermenting. then you should be able to add the rest and airlock it from there and treat it as normal.
Of course, if you\'d taken a gravity reading at the start, you\'d know what the %ABV is i.e. starting gravity, minus gravity of stuck ferment, gives you the drop in gravity numbers and say for arguments sake it\'s a drop of 100 points, then you\'d have a ferment of about 13.5% ABV.
you can also distill with sugar left to ferment, but if you chose that route, I\'d make sure that you only put 3 litres in the still not 4 and that you made sure that you use a cap full of distillers conditioner into each new charge of the still - oh and run it well away from where pets/kids/other family members are likely to pass, then if it does over boil and \"burp\", there\'ll be no harm done (or injuries)
Don\'t throw it away though, have a go at sorting it out, as it\'s a waste to bin and it\'s also part of the learning curve......

by **MrCat** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:23 am

From the SS site if you look at the chart further down the page you'll see you can use 8kg of sugar with that yeast as opposed to the 6kg in the text.
I dived straight in with 8kg of sugar, I guess perhaps I should have used 6kg first time. The air temperature has been about right.
I've now found on the SS site there is FAQ on "What do I do if my yeast stops working before all the sugar is used up?"
There is a suggestion of starting another Fermentaion with a new batch of yeast, ferment it for 48 hours and then split it into two adding half of the old stuck batch to half of the new batch so I'd end up with about 48 litres..
But further on there is this comment

If a turbo sticks, often times the %ABV will be above 12%ABV because even when the wash has overheated during fermentation it would usually hit 12%ABV anyway.

So I could just clear it and use it anyway...

by **MrCat** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:31 am

I posted the above and then saw Phantoms idea. Funnily enough I'd just done that - I added about 5 litres of water, gave it a gentle stir and I'm going to ignore it for a few days whilst waiting for some more yeast to arrive.
If it's still stuck then I'll do as SS suggests and split the batch.
My ginger ale will be done on monday and I've got a alcotec vodka kit just clearing now so I'll have two spare fermenters to play with early next week. If I do split it and it works then I'll have about 68 litres of wash to play with (inc the vodka wash)
This was only the second time I've tried to make a wash so I hadn't taken a reading at the start. I did on my ginger ale though so I'm learning as I go along.

by **freelancement** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:02 am

they have the new information flyer on the still spirits website,

if you find the old flyer, it will recommended 7kg of dextrose (not sucrose), the turbo sugar has a blend of active carbons it it, which allows you to increase yeild when using 8kg but decrease quality as you are increasing the % and by products in the environment overall altho impurities are absorbed by the carbon to help it out.

reducing the fermentables will result in higher quality spirit, lower yield hence the excellent quality rating at the bottom of the chart.

Its a trade off, but I am bias to quality haha
options avaliable is, stick the clearing agent in, the increase in yeild would be fairly insignificant for the hassle involved. Second, as the site suggests split the volume with a new batch. Note from memory adding more yeasts will result in high nitrogen in the environment as its the active nutrients, altho i believe the nutrients formulation has been recently changed to comply with new food laws and developed by oxford uni (stand to be corrected on this) I beleive the active ingrident has stayed the same less the problem compound.

Now side effects of adding to much nutrients is the batch will actually go green... but this requires a fair bit of it haha
food for thought

by **Ellie-Claire** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:53 am

Alcotec produce a Turbo re-start yeast which is desgned to re-boot stuck turbo yeasts. There is no need to use a starter just throw in. Still spirits don\'t have one (well not in UK anyway) but it is suitable for all.

I had a batch which had stuck at around 1.010, presumably because of high temperature but after a day or so it was back bubbling away. There would be some situations that it wouldn\'t work but it depends on what was the cause of the stuck ferment in the first place.

by **MrCat** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:12 am

Alcotec produce a Turbo re-start yeast which is desgned to re-boot stuck turbo yeasts

I\'d spotted that in your shop so I\'ve bought a couple. One to try out and one to keep to one side for next time!

by **Ellie-Claire** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:44 am

Thank you MrCat, don\'t forget to tell everyone how wonderful it is....or not although I\'m rather hoping you will be very happy. This yeast has helped a lot of sticky ferments.

by **MrCat** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:52 pm

Just got home from work and there was the parcel

Simple directions - add straight to brew. Reading is 1010 - lets see what happens.
Thanks

by **marc83** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:06 am

Interested to see how this one goes,personally i would have cleared the wash very well,then ran it through thew still,and started another.The ol SS classic is usually a quick ferment.Had one fully ferment out in 3-4 days,then left for a week to clear.

by **MrCat** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:53 am

There are intermittent bubbles coming through the airlock so it\'s started fermenting again.
Fingers crossed for a wash for next weekend

I\'ll keep you posted on progress.

by **MrCat** » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:12 am

Unfortunately the wash has stuck again. I\'m just waiting for some more turbo classic yeast to come through and I\'ll 50/50 split the wash with the new wash.
Not entirely sure I need 50 litres of wash especially when I\'ve just started 25 litres of Alcotec 23% but I\'m not going to waste it !!

by **MrCat** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:30 am

I\'ve followed the SS FAQ and fermented a SS classic for 2 days with 6kg of sugar. I checked the SG of the new SS classic and it was .990 - it has totally fermented all the sugar in under 48 hours so I\'m not sure the yeast has got much left but we\'ll see what happens.
Split the mix 50/50 with the new SS classic about an hour ago and already the airlock is bubbling showing there is some gas being produced so let\'s see what happens. If it finishes in 2 days I\'ll have 75 litres of wash sat here (with the alcotec)...

by **ozibrewer** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:55 am

Hi all, just joined this forum and hit on this thread; which is very useful as my virgin batch was stuck on SG 1.018. Tried to fire it up wuth a champagne yeast which blinked, then died.
Oh well, 4 litres into the Easy Still and lat\'s see what happens. But had I read Phantom\'s post above I would have been more cautious and gone for the 3 litres instead.
Nevertheless by way of feedback, it\'s been happily distilling for an hour now and no signs of boilover. I used a capful of conditioner and a pack of ceramic beads.
Cheers.