New starter needing some guidance please

[paulf]

Hi everyone,
I have been making beer and wine from kits for years now and have never thought to try my hand at spirits as assumed it was all too tricky.
However, after speaking to my local supplier over the last few weeks, he has explained that it can be very simple. I can make up a 25l mix of water, sugar and yeast and after couple of weeks, I have a wash.
I can then run this through the smartstill and add a little bottle of flavouring into each bottle to make my drink, and that's it.
Is it really that simple, I decided to try and read a little about it and have now got words such as heads, hearts, tails, stripping runs, carbon filters etc. going through my head and I am now confused, it all sounds like a massive science project.
I have tried loads of samples of what he has made and I have to say I was really impressed with all the taste, its as good as anything you can buy and I really want to start myself but I am playing smart and asking other opinions before handing too much money over.
Any advice that you can offer is greatly appreciated.
TIA
Paul

[chill]

If the samples you tasted as equal to commercial products are truly made following the single distillation instructions that these stills come with... then either you have been drinking some exceedingly cheap commercial products or need to develop your sense of taste. At least IMO.

Those instructions are flat-out dangerous. If you are not prepared to do some reading and learning and take a science experiment approach to this hobby, then my advice is to stick with wine and beer. This what is what you NEED to be doing:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1216

It is not that hard to learn and do and beats the pants off of drinking nail polish remover, however diluted and flavoured.

Chuck

[popcorn sutton]

follow this link viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1216
ask questions and read more look at the link and you will find its easy to do and you will be drinking unbelievable good brew

[Mash]

Welcome aboard.
You should find all answers you need on this forum.

It is easy once you know what you are doing. I am sure it took a couple of goes to get the hang of wine making, and you are half way there - a good clear wine is half the job - as is a good clear beer.

You probably need to consider...
a) The instructions with some stills are little more than sales brochures. They are dangerous and they will produce sh**
b) The chap at the HBS is a salesman.

If you want to have a go ... get one, they all work, but IMO these are questions you might want to consider before you do.

1. What do I want to make. ..... whiskey,gin or vodka.
2. How much do I want to make?
3. How much time have I got for the distillation process? ... different stills run in different ways and some require more management.
4. What am I comfy spending at this point? ...around £150 is more than enough (for 'a go') or is closer to £400 okay ?
5. Am I good at DIY? ... making one might be an option and much cheaper.

This is a great hobby. I am sure you will enjoy it whatever.

[Phantom]

Thread moved - more suited here than in the fermentation forum.......

Hum ? Don't agree with Mashy or Chill at all on this.

You have to start somewhere, and sugar turbo wash is as good as any. You won't be making prefect stuff straight away, but following the instructions/guidance from the manufacturer isn't dangerous. Actually, you'd likely be making better stuff than the run of the mill stuff that is available from the average offie or supermarket.

The wash IS straight forward - especially the Still Spirits "system" i.e. 6kg sugar, 21 litres of water, the yeast pack ("Triple Distilled Yeast" isn't too bad at all) and liquid carbon (my local HBS sells the yeast, carbon and finings to clear it down as a "bundle" for about £6).

By following the basic instructions, you will be able to make a standard neutral spirit (a.k.a. vodka). The essence flavourings ? some are good, some not so - it's up to you to try. Personally, I have good experiences of the Still Spirits "Classic" range flavours (they also do a shitload of others in their "Top Shelf" range, but a lot of those I haven't tasted).

There are other makers of yeast, etc as well as flavourings. Many are very good.

If you expect to make something that tastes identical to one of the branded spirits, then yes, there is a bit more too it. Equally the Air/Easy/Smart still is pretty damn flexible in what it's capable of.

To my mind, to use the required amount of sugar and water, and to end up with about 7.5 litres of 40% spirit that's drinkable or flavourable then drinkies is pretty damn good.

Most will make whatever and then use a mixer when drinking it. So to make something that is entirely acceptable to mix with whatever for less than about a fiver a litre is brilliant.

There is a lot more to this game than the basic instructions would have you believe.

I'd say, get a small air still, have a go at a few batches of wash and a few different flavour essences, then think about how it might be improved - Aidans guide, that Popcorn Sutton has already linked, is a fine bit of work. It should help you get from complete novice to know whether you're happy at that, or whether you want to learn more.

Not to be down or critical of Mashy or Chill - they're both very experienced, who I suspect, make some good stuff, just that it's cheaper to start at the base and work up, then learning about how to make good neutral for the lowest price, whether you want to buy or build a bigger more efficient still etc, well those choices are yours alone.

There's enough of a hive mind hereabouts to make some excellent brew............

I say "go for it".......

[Myles]

Everyone has there own view here and rightly so.

Personally I have never made an acceptable brew from a commercial essence - possibly the ones I tried were no good and I then didn't try any more.

Also I no longer use turbo yeast for anything. Not even for producing junkahol for cleaning runs. My slightly biased attitude is that to get a drinkable product from turbo yeast it is essential to carbon filter it.

Especially if you are using high speed fermentations and are stressing the yeast by fermenting high sugar content washes and are pushing the fermentation to try and get to 20% in a week. All of this is virtually guaranteed to produce off flavours that can only be removed by filtering.

It is one way to do things - just not what I would recommend. If you wish to start I would say to try fruit based washes, cool slow fermentation to no more than 10% ABV target.

No carbon, no finings. Just ferment it, leave it to clear and run it.
Make very conservative cuts just taking the hearts. Its a starting point. If you are after a neutral spirit just dilute the hearts and re-run and repeat the process until it is clean enough for you.

[chill]

My objection was not to turbo yeasts. I don't care what people choose to ferment, to each his own in this area. What I object to is the instructions have you drinking low wines with no cuts.

Chuck

[Mash]

No carbon, no finings. Just ferment it, leave it to clear and run it.

Agree. I don't use turbo's or essences. Do I do have fading Gin LOL.

I'd say, get a small air still, have a go at a few batches of wash and a few different flavour essences, then think about how it might be improved - Aidans guide, that Popcorn Sutton has already linked, is a fine bit of work. It should help you get from complete novice to know whether you're happy at that, or whether you want to learn more.

Agreed.. I was detailing the obvious questions really If you "go larger" chances are you will also keep the little fella too.

...or perhaps buy another to double your capacity !!

PS Aidans guide is brill...just needs some more coinage

[chill]

"No carbon, no finings. Just ferment it, leave it to clear and run it." was from Myles, not me.

[Mash]

Ooooeeer how did I do that ??

Corrected.

[Myles]

My objection was not to turbo yeasts. I don't care what people choose to ferment, to each his own in this area. What I object to is the instructions have you drinking low wines with no cuts.

Chuck

Agree with you on the cuts issue. I have tried some eastern European spirits where if it comes out of the condenser it goes in the bottle. Really bad hangovers.

[Phantom]

Some top clarification there.......
I ALWAYS carbon filter, even if its only one of those small "carbon teabag" things in the little holder that came with my small still.....

Obviously it easier to use my Z filter mostly.........

Plus IMO, a smart/easy/air still is the easiest way of starting off. Yes, I agree it may not produce the best spirit in one pass, but it's certainly not "low wines", coming out at about 60% ABV.

It's acceptable (and yes, I do still double distill - strip, let down to 40 or less, then redistill - giving me 80-85% ABV).

[paulf]

Thank you everyone for responding, I didn't mean for you all to argue with each other but its always good to hear different ways and opinions.
I think I am going to give it a go, like most of you have said its ok to start off with, once I get up and running, I hope I can learn more and improve on what I make.
It was just a little daunting with that attached method, I thought I would need a lot of equipment and having to use dozens of jars, each with little bits in that had to be used in different ways.

Am I right in thinking that the smartstill comes with a carbon filter and ceramic things included, will it contain all I need to start?? I already have a packet of turbo yeast that my HBS gave me, so if I buy the still, all I should need to buy is sugar?
Thanks for all your help, I will definitely be coming back here for advice, lots of master brewers on here.
Cheers

[Anavrin]

Hi Paulf

Yes the smartstill comes with some ceramic bits as boil enhancers, you can also use a handful of copper pennies, I've never used the carbon filter things that are supplied with the smartstill, mainly because activated carbon isn't very effective at high ABV (above 55%) it's best if you can to proof your product down to 40% after your spirit run and the filter it as slowly as you can, you can buy a bag of carbon from the HBS for about £7, this will be plenty to use if you can make a filter of some sort to pass your spirit though.

I still use turbos, I've got a vodkastar ready to strip today, in fact the last batch of neutral I made was from 3 batches of alcotec 48 (2x25lt + 1x40lt batch), after strip, the spirit run and filtering, it made a perfectly good, clean tasting spirt, enough to keep my other half happy for a while :-)

[popcorn sutton]

paulf we not arguing we all do it different ways ive been doing this for about 6 months now i have an air still it works fine for me.my first few runs was to the instructions from airstill and then i started to look at what the guys on here do .its up to you how you do it but by following the guys on here you'll only make superior alcohol .i still use essences and in my eyes make great booze some are great some are average i like the classic stuff best .top shelf are very good to