Really confused about types of still

[cloudwarrior]

Hi

Love the site lots of useful info for the novice - came across it on a rather condescending forum- I'm sure you know the one!

I would like some help on getting a still.

i want it for alcohol mainly, but water as well (help to placate the missus).

There seem to be two main types:-

easystill

smartstill
I am a little unsure are they the same?

on "that" forum site, they seemed to slag off these, but i do not have the time, space or inclination to build one myself.
any help or pointers would be appreciated

cheers

[Jimmy]

Hi, welcome to the forum! Thanks for the comments, I'm glad you've found the site useful.
Basically an EasyStill and a SmartStill are the same thing, as far as functionality goes. The difference is that they are sold by different people, and are therefore branded differently. There may be minor differences in the way they're modified, but the end result is the same. EasyStill is the name which is better known in the US, as they launched there first, but the SmartStill is also available there too I believe. In Europe, the SmartStill seems to be more well known.
In other words, either will do but make sure you get a modified one (i.e not some unknown second hand one off eBay) - speak to Graham at www.stillshop.co.uk if you're stuck, he's a nice helpful chap! They can be used for both water and alcohol, the water takes longer than with an unmodified one (about 4 - 5 hours) but it still works fine.
The reasons that some other distillers don't like these are that they don't make much at once, so they're not the most cost effective method - personally I like this, as space is more important to me. Secondly, they object to the plastic jug as there are theories that your alcohol can be contaminated - you can use a glass replacement though if you wish. Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, some people are snobs and they don't like the thought of an 'easy' still. It's a shame but it's true. At the end of the day, it suits me and it works well, that's all I care about!
Hope this helps, any more questions then let me know!

[Canyon Cat]

Here are my $0.03USD: I own and use a newer model EasyStill (bought about a month ago). The EasyStill is *meant* to distill ethanol. It *will* distill water, but v-e-r-y slowly. I got about 1000ml H2O in about three hours runtime. Too slow for me. So, the EasyStill *will* do both, but it distills ethanol quite nicely.
Decide which is more important and go that way, I'd suggest.
To add to Jimmy's three points:
1. I make 1500 ml of about 50%ABV ethanol ("rum", if you insist). That's two 750 ml bottles. If you do a run every day you'll have twelve bottles of hootch in six days. If that isn't enough for you either you're a freeking alkie or you're selling the stuff (bad form IMHO). But seriously, if you're in a hurry, you can always collect the wash into another container and start your next batch in your fermenter while you do your runs.
2. I also have never used the plastic jug that came with my unit. I run the distillate through a pipe filled with activated carbon that drips into either a pint or quart mason jar. Mason jars are very common here in the States--not sure about the UK.
3. As far as the distiller snobs--screw `em. I'm not looking to join a cult--just to make ethanol cheaply and discreetly. And that I do. Cheers!

[Phantom]

Here's the link for the bloke who imports them into the UK. Personally, I have both models i.e. a 4 litre table top one and a 25 litre reflux one. I only got the larger one because I'm impatient and spending the day running a whole batch got on my partners nerves.
Unlike the Canyon Cats suspicions, I'm not an alky or selling, just impatient - and to make a batch of 7.5 litres @ 40% A.B.V. it's convenient to be able to make a couple of different flavours to try/test
But, I also appreciate the compact nature of these bits of kit. I mainly follow the "still spirits" instructions closely for straight ethanol (I'm working my way through the various flavourings to make sure which ones I like) but I'm also experimenting with "proper" mash/wash mixes (mainly apple based due to where I'm located) to see what I can come up with.
p.s. and no, if I couldn't make it myself, I wouldn't be buying it - not at what the "pointy heads" of HMRC want to charge in duty/vat/other extortion!

[DarkDeveloper]

Hi!
I'm new to the forum, and I have a question about the various stills you can buy.
Initially, I ordered one of these stills :-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-Water-D ... 286.c0.m14
It seems to be a generic version of the Genie Deluxe MK2 stills (that I believe can be used for spirit production)
I then became a bit unsure about it (I believe there are two versions of the Genie deluxe, one for distilling water, the other for spirits) and so opted for a Smart Still (from the home brew shop) instead, just to be on the safe side.
My question is, could I still use the generic Genie distiller for spirits (how do i know if it has been modified or not?) or should I just pop it back onto ebay?
Any advice would be appreciated, thanks in advance!

[Jimmy]

You can still use it, but there are a few differences - I've already listed them in the FAQ on the main site so check it out!
http://www.stillsmart.co.uk/frequently-asked-questions/
Saves my fingers if I don't have to type it again!

[HangOver]

I run the distillate through a pipe filled with activated carbon that drips into either a pint or quart mason jar.

Hi Canyon cat

I am really interested on your filter as I was thinking of making something similar can you give anymore info?

Is it juts a pipe with a tap on the end?

Diameter pipe?

length of the pipe?

what stops the carbon falling out the end with the distillate?

How much carbon you put in?

how much distillate will the carbon treat?
I was thinking of just getting a say 500mm pipe, cap-off one end and drill a small hole in the capped end.

Stuff 1/4 the pipe with cotton wool and about 1/4 with carbon. Thats just thinking out loud though but I cant see why it wouldn't work.
much appreciated

[Jimmy]

Hi HangOver!
I can't speak for Canyon Cat, but I made a very successful filter pipe with about 1 metre of plastic plumbing pipe, around 500mm (it was for internal water supply so I figured no issues with contamination from the plastic as it must be certified safe) - I intended to use a jubilee clip but forgot to buy one so all I did was tape 2 coffee filters tightly to the end of the pipe, then filled with carbon. Then I rested the end in a funnel which was in the neck of a bottle. Worked a charm! I could have done with some kind of stand though, and a demijohn or something as I kept having to switch bottles.
Note that because you have so much distance to travel, you can pretty much pour in a litre and most of it won't come out - make sure you wet the carbon first (plenty of info online about this), then pour in the spirit, keep tasting what is coming out of the bottom until it stops being water, THEN start collecting. When you've finished, a handy tip is to flush out the remaining spirit by using HOT water into the top of the pipe, that way you can feel how far down it has got and you know roughly when to stop collecting spirit as the water is on the way.
Hope this helps - any more to add Cat?

[goinbroke2]

Hope I don't come off as a snob being my first post here and all....but...don't use plastic, period. Get a piece of copper pipe if you want but plastic that's good for water certainly does not qualify it to be good for ethanol.
I run a 58L still and after getting rid of the foreshots (250-500ml) I collect in 500ml mason jars. Cover with cloth and let sit over night to air out. The next day I check where the heads/hearts/tails are. I only use the hearts and throw the heads/tails into a glass carboy labeled "feints". After I get 40L of feints (about 3 runs) I do a run of feints and again only use the hearts.
I never use carbon as it's not required. SS keg, SS tri-clover clamp and the remainder is copper.
My guess is you are getting bad tastes because 1) your using turbo yeast(lots of nutrients that make the yeast stressed and producing to hard/too hot) and 2) your using too much sugar trying to get too high of an initial wash ABV.
Cut it back to 10% and use baking yeast. Keep it around 70 degrees (20c?) and let it ferment until it's done. Rack it after a week into another bucket/pail/carboy and let it sit another couple weeks to clear. Then rack it into the still and run it.
As I said, I don't want to appear to be a snob, but a lot of your problems are self-induced.

[goinbroke2]

I forgot to say what I make!

I use two 4L ice cream containers full of cracked corn (10 lb's total) and two 2.2kg bags of table sugar in a 30L pail and top with water. Out of that I get around 20L of 10-12% wash.
I make two pails at a time as I run 40L in the 58L still.
I first do a stripping run and collect at around 45-55% and end up with about 13-15L.

After doing some stripping runs I'll do a spirit run of 40L of 45-55% and get approx 9L of 75%. I'll dilute that to 50% with distilled water. Tastes awesome and doesn't give hangovers/bad after taste etc. That's about 16L or so of 50%!
Can't stand the taste of that boughten shit now! LOL!
What else....I use a propane rim burner I made for heating, 25ft of 1/2" copper line in a 20L pail with garden hose attachments for a coil....again, all copper and SS.
If your doing this hobby, do it safe.

[HangOver]

thanks for the info.

Until i get the hang of this i'll use a filter.

I used turboyeast because it came with the still but next time i'll try bakers yeast with less sugar.
Today I bought a length of copper pipe and a brass compresion cap for the end.

I still intend to use that filled with carbon but I wont use the cotton wool because apparently they use bleach to make it white.

I'll try the coffee filter idea and pack the bottom with filer paper first, then top up a bit with carbon. I'm sure it'll be good enough.

Maybe when ive done it a few times i might be able to manage without it, we'll see.
One question, after fermentation i got some stuff to help clear it. I aslo got this with the still its called TurboClear, its supposed to clear the wash in 24hrs.

If i didnt put it in the wash and just left it for a week or two would that do the same thing?

[Jimmy]

Yes, the TurboKlar just causes all the sediment and dead yeast to fall to the bottom, which happens over time anyway if you leave it undisturbed in a cool place. I checked up on how it works, it's pretty cool stuff actually - it forms long chains of molecules and then the second sachet glues them all together if memory serves. The old timers used to do similar with egg white I believe.
As for carbon filtering - with a pot still (like a Smart/EasyStill) you're never going to get a top purity vodka due to the way it works - don't get me wrong, you can make excellent stuff, but you can only ever get to around 85% ABV tops which of course means that 15% is 'other material' - carbon filtering makes sure that anything nasty tasting is taken out, and if you are making vodka then there is never any harm in filtering it - even the water you dilute with will become purer after going through, because that's basically what a Brita filter is.
Or to put it another way - try it both ways and make up your own mind!

[Jimmy]

Oh, and on the plastic pipe front - many people say no plastics whatsoever, and some (like myself) are a little more relaxed about it - not careless, but I will allow some plastics in my distilling with the following rules :
No plastics in the still itself i.e. pipes, etc.

No plastics with anything hot.

No plastics with anything above 40% or so.

No storage in plastic containers.
In other words, I'm happy to use a plastic pipe for my filtering because the strength of the alcohol is relatively low and it's basically passing through the carbon anyway rather than sitting against the plastic. Some people think even this is too much, and they're entitled to think that way - for me, it's alright. I also have a plastic funnel which I use for bottling, and a plastic measuring jug which I use to transfer the wash into the still. I would not store alcohol in plastic containers, and if anyone wants to know why then distill some strong stuff and leave it in an empty pop bottle for a week or two and see what it does to the insides!
Let's not have an argument about it on here - I think I make the relevant points but if I've missed any then intelligent debate is always welcome - for ultimate safety, don't use plastics at all. If you do, use them sensibly and with an understanding of why you're doing it so you can keep risks to a minimum.

[goinbroke2]

[img][img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b400/goinbroke2/MILLERORIGINAL.gif[/img][/img][img]http://[img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b400/goinbroke2/stillin3.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b400/goinbroke2/stillin.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b400/goinbroke2/stillin7.jpg[/img][/img]Naw, don't want to start anything. I'm just extremely cautious (anal?) about safety that's all. Somebody mentioned using brass fittings and I'm apprehensive about brass too as brass is made with lead in it. I used a copper to copper fitting to connect my worm to my still head. SS and copper with some silver solder and lead free solder holding it together. I even went so far as to see if there was a "food grade" flux for soldering...but there isn't. Shows you how paranoid I am about being safe I guess.
Never used or even seen a easystill or whatever. I couldn't stand doing all the work to get just one bottle or so. Going to a party tonight so I went to the garage and poured off three 750ml bottles of 50% rye whisky. Part of a batch. I understand a lot of you guys in the UK rent or live in apartments so yeah my set up might be a little big.
Since the topic is "types of stills" I'll see if I can upload pic's of my potstill.
EDIT: figures, can't get it to work. I'll keep trying....

[goinbroke2]

The lyne arm and hook up
The 58L SS keg heating up
Worm bucket 20L pail and 25ft of 1/2" copper tube
Polar bear in the graveyard Yeah I know it wouldn't appear to be likker related, but I thought I was wasted when I saw it! LOL