Bad Experience

[PieOPah]

So, recently, I decided I would make a malt wash rather than a sugar one. Since I didn't have the time to mash the grain, I decided on using LME.

From the beginning, things seemed to go wrong.

Before fermenting, I decided that I would boil the wort for the protein break (I've read that this helps with puking during the distil). Unfortunately, everytime I got a rolling boil, the element would shut down for a few minutes before sparking back to life. This meant that what should have been a relatively quick process too a lot longer.

I then added the wort to my fermenter and topped up with cold water. Unfortunately, this didn't have the desired effect of cooling quickly enough. At this point, my other half was getting a little impatient as we had planned to go out. So, I had to leave the wort to cool naturally.

It wasn't until the next day that I was able to pitch the yeast, which I did as soon as I could.

48 hours later, there seemed to be no action - so, I move the vessel next to the radiator and turned up the heat. Eventually I started to see bubbles.

After about a week, I tested the gravity. 1.020 - not as low as I had hoped. A sneaky taste of the sample also told me that it was infected.

48 hours later, the gravity hadn't changed so I gave it a little swirl to try and encourage it to start back up. Another taste and the taste was still quite nasty.

Unfortunately, the gravity never changed. I was at a point of deciding to bin the lot, but thought better of it. I added my fining's and left it to clear (which it never did).

I have now done my stripping run and I think I'll be left with around 5 litres to put through the spirit run. Nowhere near what I had hoped (I was hoping for 2-3 times this amount). But, on the plus side, it seems to taste okay.

Not my best experience so far, but lessons learned and I still have something to show for my efforts.

[Anavrin]

Hi PieOPah

Sounds like you got unlucky with that one, personally I wouldn't boil LME, it's already been boiled to get it so thick, plus boiling it causes two problems, you need to cool it, and you need to aireate it, if you where setup as an AG brewer and had a few brews under your belt I'm sure this would have been plane sailing, I had all the above problems when first AG brewing, here's what I'd do differently.

Firstly bypass the thermal cut out switch on your boiler so it can run continuously without cutting out, liquids with high sugar content can have a higher boiling point than water.

Secondly you need a chiller to cool the wort/wash after the boil, either an immersion chiller that is basically a big coil that sits inside the boiler or counter flow chiller, counter flow is quicker and easier but more expensive and complicated to setup.

Then when filling your fermenter, have the boiler up high and let the liquid drop a few feet and stir it in with a paddle to get it aireated.

Also if you are going to boil, try and calculate any losses from evaporation and have all your wash in the boiler, don't be adding water at a later stage, this way you know everything in your bucket is sterile.

Finally if you want to save a small fortune build yourself a diy mash tun out of a cheap cool box and use real grain, the first one I ever made was a £7 asda cool box, I fitted a king keg plastc tap in one end at the bottom and made a small frame out of 15mm copper pipe, with slots in it for the wort to drain trough but keeping the grain in the box.

Not sure if you've ever brewed AG beers but mashing grain is really not to difficult and dramatically cheaper than buying LME or DME.

You do need to spend a little on a chiller and a mash tun but £50 should easily cover it if you make your own.

[PieOPah]

I have many AG brews under my belt so have the full kit (including an copper immersion chiller). Because I felt under pressure to get everything done as quickly as possible, I cut corners - boiling half the amount for the protein break and cooling with tap water (which I have never had a problem with before - I use it for my sugar washes).

The boiler I used is a fairly basic setup - a fermenting vessel with a kettle element in it. It has a thermostat with it however, I removed this (I only ever used it when I was heating up my mash/sparge water). Beyond this, I have no idea how to disable the thermal cutoff.

For aeration, I normally just transfer from boiler to FV from height. This has always oxegenated my wort sufficiently. I think the main problem was that I then left it too long before pitching my yeast.

The main lesson here is to make sure my partner isn't here the next time I want to brew. That way I can take my time and enjoy it without feeling rushed.

It is probably time for me to buy a 25Kg bag of grain. It has been far too long since I last made myself a beer and now I can also make malt whiskey, I have more desire to get brewing :-)

[Anavrin]

Sorry PieOPah, wasn't trying to teach you to suck eggs, I know the feeling though about time contraints, I find spirit runs are the worst, takes hours, this misses starts asking how long your going to be and I'm sat there thinking, yeah it's late, I've been going ages but I'm still collecting good stuff here and I've been making and stripping washes for a month to get to this point!!!

I've not done a drop of My favourite TTL for over a year, I'll join you in getting a 25kg sac of malt, 4.5 KG's for ale and the rest will be for my maiden voyage into whisky

[PieOPah]

Didn't read your post thinking you were telling me stuff I didn't already know - just saw it as you giving advice. You aren't to know what experience I have.

With that in mind, how do I disable the thermal cut off on my boiler?

[Icefever]

how do I disable the thermal cut off on my boiler?


Take a look here if I can find them I have a couple of photos when I did mine..

Found it...

take (cut) off the round copper disc...

BJ

[Mash]

With that in mind, how do I disable the thermal cut off on my boiler?

This is a myth. There is no need to.
The boil is about achieving a temperature 100'c for the wort for a period of time. Not about it bubbling furiously.

Many people adjust the thermostat so that it cuts out a smidge later - just making sure it gets as hot as possible - before cutting out thermostatically.

It also gives a much better (and cheaper) boil if you put a jacket around the outside. Black rubber foam is ideal - Definitely something that will not melt.

You can spend a lot of money on boilers (1000's) and they all cut out somewhere

[PieOPah]

Whilst I agree not wanting it to bubble away furiously, you still want to achieve the rolling boil. If my element keeps cutting out then something needs to be done :-)

I'll look into those instructibles later. Thank you.

[Mash]

I was with you for a long time. Bought and sold much kit. I eventually had this conversation with breumeister they said it is not even a rolling boil it temperature maintenance.


.... and that depends on height and atmos pressure.

Or put another way. You can turn gas down. Electricity is on or off (in its simplest form.)

[Anavrin]

I've got two of these elements in my HLT, they have no thermal cutout, also you can plug a C16 kettle lead straight into them

http://www.angelhomebrew.co.uk/en/kettl ... t-kit.html

Ignore the price, I got my 2 for half that but can't remember where from, it's was a company that makes them, I remember having to wait while they where made, I'll try and find it later when I'm not late for work!

[Mash]

2nd that - a lot of AG guys do similar.
Up to temp with both and then just run 1 for the boil.

ASDA kettle elements !! I have 2 if anyone wants ! FOC

[PieOPah]

I've got two of these elements in my HLT, they have no thermal cutout, also you can plug a C16 kettle lead straight into them

http://www.angelhomebrew.co.uk/en/kettl ... t-kit.html

Ignore the price, I got my 2 for half that but can't remember where from, it's was a company that makes them, I remember having to wait while they where made, I'll try and find it later when I'm not late for work!

That looks identical to the element I have in my boiler...