StillSmart

I'd like to use this thread for people to post details about how the law views home distillation in their country/region. If you have any information then please add it to a reply and hopefully we can build up a full list for people! Here's a starter :
USA : http://www.atf.gov/alcohol/info/faq/genalcohol.htm
Anyone have any more?

I found the below statement when looking into UK law:-
Giles writes, concerning what the risks are ...
I took the trouble to look this up a while ago in 'Halsbury's Laws of England' which is the legal encyclopaedia used by the courts and lawyers in general. It is very authoritative. Basically, the situation is this. You can't distill alcohol without a rectifier's licence (Alcoholic Liquor Duties Act 1979 s18(1)).
If you do and are caught you will be liable to pay the duty on the alcohol in the spirits you make (currently £19.56 per litre) and to pay a fine of whichever is the greater of £250 and 5% of the duty payable. (Finance Act 1994 s9(2)). Forget getting a license. There are rules about how large (or rather how small) the still can be which would render any home device unlawful and in any case you'd have to pay the duty which sort of defeats the object. As far as I can ascertain, you are not committing a criminal offence by distilling alcohol. All the above are civil matters. I assume that Customs and Excise would seize all your product and your equipment too.
In short, you might say that the consequences of a raid on a genuine hobby distiller making liquor for him or herself would be embarrassing but not necessarily disastrous. As for the likelihood of getting caught; well I have never heard of a case in my lifetime (I'm 47). My own guess is that the Customs an Excise are far too busy chasing drugs and liquor smugglers and dealing with VAT fraud to bother with a small time....... Hang on, there's someone at the door.

Nice find, thanks Graham! Just to clarify that - you would pay duty on the alcohol contained within the spirits, so on a litre at 40% you would pay 40% of £19.56, or £7.82-ish. Goes to show you what the margins must be like on retail spirits, and how much the government is earning from them!

I think you'll find that that's actually out of date Jimmy.
When I last looked it up (which was before the last budget from "monobrow"), it was calculated at £19.56, per 1% ABV per hectolitre (100 litres), so that'd be £782.40 per 100 litres at 40% ABV (about £7.82 per litre bottle - or % thereof).
I'll have another google round when I get back from hols, someones bound to have posted the current numbers on the net.
As for the margins etc, reading the HMRC site, and you would probably conclude what I did, in that it's nothing to do with health etc, it's purely about revenue protection.
If you then factor in transport/shipping, bottling, distribution etc, then the margins on the cheap shit aren't much - they're making their money on volume, but the "brands" are extorting more, and it'd depend on the rarity value as to whether I'd pay what "they" ask.
For instance, if you check out the books that are available, I'd be happy to pay a decent amount to a small local producer of either Armagnac or Calvados, whereas if you actually check out (using Janneau as an example) what's sold by the "brokerage houses", then not anywhere near as much.
The problem is finding the small producer stuff. They don't have the organised marketing outlets like the "big boys" have.

The Production and Distribution of Alcohol in Australia from http://www.dassa.sa.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=124
Under the Distillation Act 1901 (Cwlth) it is an offence to distil any spirit without first obtaining a licence from the Excise Business Line of the Australian Taxation Office (maximum penalty $5000).
It is also an offence to make, possess, sell or purchase any illicit spirits regardless of the proposed use (maximum penalty $5000).
The production of beer or wine without a licence is not an offence provided the production is not for commercial purposes, as specified by the Excise Tariff Act 1921 (Cwlth).
The production of fortified wine requires a permit from the Excise Business Line of the Australian Taxation Office. Permits are only granted for commercial purposes.
Under the Customs Act 1901 (Cwlth) an individual is permitted to bring into the country 2.25 litres of alcoholic liquor (including wine, beer, or spirit) per person aged 18 years or over, before import duty is charged.
Cheers.

I'm not making drinks - I'm an exempt producer making ethanol for bio-diesel..
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000205&propertyType=document

Alas, I\'ve just put the joblot of double distilled odourless 75% down the toilet and am in the process of commissioning a reversion of the gear to water distillation only.
Sadly yours.

ozibrewer
Alas, I\'ve just put the joblot of double distilled odourless 75% down the toilet and am in the process of commissioning a reversion of the gear to water distillation only.
Sadly yours.

:0 - someone been knocking on your door ??

Its totally legal here in NZ,just cannot supply or sell it without the appropriate license.seems fair to me.

[url=http://www.ato.gov.au/print.asp?doc=/content/66216.htm]
"What if I distil alcohol at home?
Even if you have a still at home, you must have an excise manufacturer licence before you start to distil any alcohol. You must pay excise duty on the alcohol you produce. The current rate is in excess of $65 per litre of alcohol. For example, on a 700ml bottle of vodka at an alcoholic strength of 40% the excise duty would be approximately $18 per bottle."
and this is why you dont buy $25 bottle spirits, as they are making $7 from manufacturer to distributor less cost (manufacturing costs and distribution costs) less 10% GST tax = profits

screams quality
mmmm $65 per litre @ 100%

There is a very interesting Question and answer on Yahoo at the moment http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 757AAvsN53
In great summary, the question asks if distilling is legal without a licence - and gets the intriguing answer that \"yes but there is a loophole\". The answerer then goes on to mention that if you can reasonably demonstrate that it is for home use only, a licence can be obtained.
More promising still is that the questionner than acknowledges this reply with the following comment:
\"Asker\'s Comment:

Thanks, I found out from HM Revenue and Customs that I can apply for a refiners license which is free. I can have a Still that can hold 5 litres or less as it will be for home use, and I must let them know what I distill, and ingredients used but I dont have to pay any duty if it is not for sale. \"
Now I suspect possibly he meant a \"rectifiers licence\" as I can find no trace of a \"refiners licence\", but although I have sent the fellow who posted the question a request for a little more info - eg: a link to the licence application - I have not yet had a reply.
It would be so nice to be able to do this properly, legally and above board rather than skulking around in the shadows.
I am tempted to contact Customs & Revenue for a comment but I do not wish to draw attention to myself if the answer is going to be \"no\".
If anyone else has managed to find out more, I would be very interested. I note someone on here has gone down the bio-ethanol route - and as that is something genuinely of interest (I already make biodiesel), it would be another avenue to explore though for car use, the cost of production is going to be almost the price of fuel - even though it seems that it STILL (no pun intended) qualifieds for 2500 litres personal use allowance before duty is payable (for car use).
Interesting stuff.
I am awaiting the arrival of a little smartstill which has been modified down to 375w - and incidentally, if people want to know how to do a REALLY crude but safe reduction of power on their still, I can help them drop power to about a quarter of what it is for the price of about 50p - alas not just dropping to half.
To drop the power to a quarter, take the wire which goes ONLY to the heater and cut it, insert a 6A (to stop it getting warm) diode in series (rated to at least 400v) This only allows HALF the mains waveform through to the heater.
Alas, half the voltage means that the current will fall to half too - and half x half = a quarter. So if you still now has an 800w heater, then the diode mod will reduce it to 200W
If anyone needs a hand finding suitable diodes, then Rapid Electronics (google) do them as do most electronic suppliers - possibly even Ebay. Just make sure the diode is rated for at least 400v and ideally at least TWICE the current it will take to help the body of the component stay cool without heatsinking.
Have fun
Mark

Hi Mark,

I too have scratched my head for a while regards licensing; even to the point of getting a bunch of solicitors to try and clarify the position for a small time jo such as I. I really have no wish to try and upend the revenue, though I accept this is an unfortunate metaphor. Anyway, after all is said and done my best feedback to date has been that HMC&E probably do have better thing to do with their time…but as the man said ..â€

Hi Hoot.
A potentiometer for 3KW would need a heatsink the size of a fridge and would cost horrible amounts. However that is not to say that there are not some options for you.
If you want cheap and ugly, try wiring the immersion in series with something like a 3KW bar fire - ideally one which you can switch one, two or three bars on. Crude but basically a sort of \"giant resistor\" that glows nicely.
Of course if the tank had a second place where you can stick an immersion heater, then having two of them in such a way you could power just one (3KW) or power them both in series (at this point you get 375W on each element - 750 total. you might reasonably think dividing the power between the two would just reduce things by half but it is not to be. The voltage is shared equally between both immersions - so instead of around 220-240v it is now 110-120v. As such, the CURRENT reduce by half too - half the voltage x half the current = quarter the power in total. So 3KW becomes 750W - but not a bad wattage to \"hold temperature\".
If there is no way to easily add another immersion heater, then another thing that will do the same trick (drop power to 750w from 3000w) would be to keep an eye out for a cheap and cheerful 110V yellow site transformer.
Unfortunately, 3KW is just a bit high for an off-the-shelf heavy duty dimmer (they tend to get a bin thin on the gruond after 1KW).
Incidentally, if you hunt around (Ebay?) and try to find a 25A (or higher) bridge rectifier good for 400v (or higher), then connecting BOTH of the AC input together and taking just the positive output (leaving the negative disconnected), effectively doubles the current handling (already ample) but it means the thing runs cooler AND has a huge margin before it is overloaded. That said it may still need to be bolted to a heatsink (a hand lump of aluminium / copper). Once again this is going to effectively reduce voltage by half, current by half and therefore power (watts) by a quarter - so we are back at 750w again.
If you are wary of doing this but want to proceed down this route, I might be able to throw something together for you - but it is still going ot be an odd looking device - basically a 13A plug going to a metal box doubling as a heatsink and something to keep fingers off the mains. It would then have a socket on front and a switch will would let you go between full power and quarter power. It is important to make sure you only use the thing with heaters / ordinary lamps. Using it to control motors / transformer driven products etc WILL cause damage to windings.
If you have a friendly electronic friend to hand, he might be able to knock this up out of his scrapbox for the price of a couple of pints and a plug, socket and lead.
Hope that helps a bit.
Kind Regards:

Mark

Hi Mark,

Thanks very much for your detailed reply.
Clearly we speak the same language but I may have been a little too succinct previously. I’ll keep it short, but the story to date is:
I built a copper reflux still and had loads of fun until I came to the practical mechanics of the boiler – revamping an old copper tank proved a challenge. Soldering, braising and filling holes all over the place -but an element of success prevailed.
Until that is, I came to the heating element: An unregulated 3kw is far too hot and finding anything less in the shops –maybe 1.5 or 2kw, is like the proverbial rocking horse dung. Anyway, I too did the calculation and thought the best way would be two 3kw units wired in series would give me ½ x ½ 6kw=1.5kw. grappling with my years old schoolboy physics left me a bit doubtful and all knowledgeable souls I questioned seemed to think I was at least one light bulb short of a chandelier. It was all getting a bit confusing, so I found a variable resistor from an electric oven rated at at least the 3k required, wiring suggestions are at best obscure and in an area really on the limits of my understanding.
So, although the above equipment is all to hand, in desperation I wondered if a sizeable in series diode might do the trick. In the light of the above I would of course welcome your thoughts but I do not want to put you to too much trouble so do feel free to suggest gas.
Best to you, and my thanks for your help.

Hoot.

Hi Hoot.
Wow, impressive stuff, I would love to build a reflux still some time but although I can follow the principle, I have this feeling I would spend tens of hours adjusting copper pipes and cutting things too short etc. I am impressed with your success.
Happy to help if I can. Sorry, I confusedd the issue without meaning too. A rectifer is just another name for a diode - so a bridge rectifier is essentially a little package of 4 heavy duty rectifiers (diodes) all linked up. So in short, YES, the diode system is still a viable option - and the only reason I was advocating the \"bridge\" is that they are easier and cheaper to get heavy duty devices - AND they have a nice fixing hole in the middle to make life simple. Imagine a block of metal or plastic about 30mm square and about 10mm deep. It has four prongs coming out, two are marked for AC, one is positive and one is negative. Connecting BOTH the AC inputs together and then using JUST the positive (or just the negative) makes two diodes work in parallel for you - thus increasing the current handling.
They look like this - http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... _gm-T0_91A
I think you might find that the oven control is more like a thermostat with a remote sensor and a bi-metallic on/off action as and when it reaches temperature. That said, if the tripping in/out is fairly sharply defined, then this might indeed do the job. Ovens can often go down to about 60C to keep things warm and this is the sort of range you would want I guess. for that matter I guess a bog standard immersion heater thermostat?
With the cooker control, if you can find a part number, we might be able to figure it out together but I would have thought unless it had a neon or something (one extra wire to neutral), it would just have LIVE in, LIVE out and a bit of copper capillary pipe to poke into the over somewhere! I might well be totally wrong - but if you can find a part number, we can see what other options there might be.
As for suggesting gas - lol - I am terrified of the stuff - let alone to heat flammable liquids.
I will have a look and see if I can find a quick and ready diagram for an electronic one able to handle 3KW. Be just like a dimmer switch on steroids reall
Catch you again soon, but must get some kip now.
Blue skies
Mark