StillSmart

correct me if i am wrong but as i understand it, it is not an offence to distill as you are allowed to distill 2500L for fuel, the offence is preparing or consuming the distilled alchol .......
too many grey area\'s tbh. but i do believe the more noise you make the more you are noticed, i am gunna keep my head down

"Born in the UK" it's not going to happen or can it? Every post on the site that relates to equipment covers a product imported into the UK. OK if we can't change the law surely we can bend it. If we're allowed to distill fuel, water and essential oils than surely we can manufacture equipment to do just that. History shows us we have had some of the best engineering talent in the world in this country and I'm sure we still have. The Fuselex Filter featured elsewhere on the site is a nice piece of kit but I bet we could make a better one at an affordable price the same goes for the array of stills on the uk market. So if we can't risk a lobby for legality how about lobbying manufacturers for equipment. Theres probably a small engineering company out there right now desperate for work who could get in on the market and I'm pretty sure this site would do it's best to promote them. Perhaps someone reading this is with such a company and in a position to put the idea forward.
Opus 27

Well Opus, you\'re probably right, but when it comes down to it, if it\'s made commercially, then you still have to deal with all the usual nonsense don\'t you.
Like how much does it really cost to make \"it\" ?
What or how much is the mark up that the maker wants for \"it\" ?
If it\'s something that\'s being made commercially, then the maker probably still has to list \"it\" in their accounts, thereby telling HMRC how many \"it\'s\" have been sold.
The fact that if the \"it\" can be used to distil potable alcohol, then they have to put their disclaimer on the \"it\", so that the buyer is aware that distillation of potable alcohol is a licensed activity.
I mean, damn, if they really want to chase me for the tiny amounts that I make then they\'re bloody welcome. I doubt it would be in the public interest......
Of course, it\'s known that they chase big time counterfeiters - there was that case in the news last year where someone was making large amounts of fake Smirnoff, though who the actual driving force behind it was (HMRC, Diageo, Trading Standards, etc etc), is another question.
Lets face it, there\'s enough designs out there, that a lot of us can manufacture our own kit, it\'s just that \"off the shelf\" is so convenient, and relatively easy.
If I was in a position to buy the machinery for a different reason then there\'d probably be a market, albeit a small one......

so am I to understand that there has never been a case of a home distiller prosecuted????

In the UK, don't know for sure but as I understand it, it's a revenue matter and not a crime. If you are caught distilling (and note I believe this means actually distilling, as there is nothing illegal about possessing a still or spirit) then your equipment can be confiscated and you can be chased by HMRC for lost taxes and presumably fined. I am no lawyer, but as I read it you won't be arrested but you could be hit in the pocket. Of course, there may be some devious manner by which you're prosecuted for avoiding tax or somesuch, as I said I'm no legal expert. Anecdotally, I've heard people say they've spoken to HMRC about becoming legal and have effectively been told to keep it quiet and keep it for home use and as long as you're not selling, they're not bothered. Again, this is purely the 'word on the street'.

The only prosecutions that I have heard of in Canada were for selling, e.g. raid in Toronto. Other than that, I think is is de facto legal (e.g. the powers that be can't be bothered with what I do in my own home for my own use). Getting caught is not something that particularly concerns me, nor is it a criminal matter here (as I understand it).

Chuck

It would also, probably, be a waste of time trying the "European approach", and try to take it through the EU, as a fairness and equality thing.

Our "powers that be" would squeal like stuck pigs, to prevent the EU "from poking its nose into UK taxation matters" as the whole principle is rather more fundamental.

While the sentiment of the original post is entirely correct, how are you gonna change something like this, when the bastards won't even give us a formal written constitution and bill of rights? Because that would tie their hands too much, when it comes to making legislation that allows the rich and big business to exploit us.

I'm with you brother!

AM

The powers that be in New Zealand, led the way to legalised hobby distilling in the 1996 act of parliament which empowered hobby distillers to pursue their craft. And you know what…the sky did not fall in and the country did not collapse into anarchy….. Whilst not legalised … distilling is very much a fact in the rest of the world. If we are to convince our governments of the benefits of having a legal craft distilling population, and as such legislating the legalisation of distilling, I believe that we must distance ourselves from the alcohol centric, hillbilly and redneck image which has become associated with the hobby…To not be seen as a threat to government we have to represent ourselves as models of responsibility and start to promote the hobby for the scientific finely honed craft it is. In saying this I certainly am not saying that we cannot have fun…I myself have terrorised my liver into submission most of my life…It is just that to achieve a legalised hobby we have to play the game smarter….Distilling is a great craft which is rooted firmly in the history of mankind, it is about time we came out of hiding and achieve the freedoms shared by others who pursue their hobbies without fear.

While I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments expressed here it must be recognised that, in Europe at least, politicians are, for the most part, spineless, weak willed and self-serving and are dictated to by big industry, financial markets and each country's unelected Civil Servants.

No matter how reasonable our cause or argument I cannot forsee the day when our hobby will enjoy legal acceptance.

Just look at Europe at the present time. The financial markets are toying with the economies of individual states and even the EU economy as a whole and the politicians are running around like headless chickens.

The dogs in the street know what needs to be done to put the financial markets back in their place and stabilise the economies of Europe and the Euro currency but the politicians won't do it, they won't even speak it's name because big industry and the financial markets won't like it and the Civil Servants keep saying it can't be done without catastrophic consequences. (Burning Banks and Bondholders and breaking up the big banks and financial instutions)

My point is that I believe the only way our hobby would ever be legalised would be if we, as a worldwide group, were able to pressurise politicians into doing so out of fear of the alternative and we have no way of creating that type of pressure because we're just little people.

AM

Here's a link to an article in the daily mail from a while back, it raises a couple of related points.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2035112/Homemade-vodka-blows-house-Inventor-street-blackened-pants.html

One

The establishment would use guys like this one as a prime example as to why the masses should not be encouraged to distill spirits.

Two

The police do not know the difference between brewing and distilling, what is illegal and what is not, or are deliberatly turning a blind eye.

The guy demolishes his house as a result of making moonshine and the police do not prosecute. Although it would be nice to be able to discuss our hobby in public, do we really have much to worry about?

No comment.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/spirmanual/SPIR4230.htm