Plastic Storage Crates as Fermenters

[Seagull]

While I was in Dunelm yesterday perusing my favourite Kilner aisle, I noticed these:

http://www.dunelm.com/product/maxi-stor ... 1000008211

And got to thinking. Can you use this as a fermenting vessel? A 100 litre box is only £9.99. I know this isn't 'food grade' plastic, but does that really matter?

They'd stack nicely too - maybe a smaller one on top because of the weight.

[inspector gadget]

While I was in Dunelm yesterday perusing my favourite Kilner aisle, I noticed these:

http://www.dunelm.com/product/maxi-stor ... 1000008211

And got to thinking. Can you use this as a fermenting vessel? A 100 litre box is only £9.99. I know this isn't 'food grade' plastic, but does that really matter?

They'd stack nicely too - maybe a smaller one on top because of the weight.

Not sure I fancy that much, these look like a possibility at £16 and food grade too

http://www.lincsproducts.co.uk/

[Mash]

While I was in Dunelm yesterday perusing my favourite Kilner aisle, I noticed these:

http://www.dunelm.com/product/maxi-stor ... 1000008211

And got to thinking. Can you use this as a fermenting vessel? A 100 litre box is only £9.99. I know this isn't 'food grade' plastic, but does that really matter?

They'd stack nicely too - maybe a smaller one on top because of the weight.

IMO. That isn't a very strong shape or very stable when full of liquid.

I seriously don't think you can beat the wide mouth wine fermenter for price, weight, versatility, strength and logevity ... hmm that must be something to do with oaking

[Easydrinker]

Depending upon your own view,"food grade" may be inconsequential.
For myself, and my friends invited to drink my products it most certainly is an issue.
The odd time, injesting a bit of dissolved plasticiser is probably not going to harm anyone?
Repeated exposure to the same chemicals may mess you up.
According to the State of California.

I wish that they could be the only state to get Trump, 'cos they deserve him.
No politics here.
Moving along.
Food grade, and alcohol tolerant plastics are kind of known, and widely accepted.
Mostly OK for a brew, and maybe storing a strip. HDPE springs to mind.
At a point glass comes in, 'cos the alcohol starts to mess with it's container and dissolve it, if it is plastic.
There are so many variables, that it is not possible to be definitive.

Robert.

My best advice, and practise is that anything above strip strength goes into glass or SS

[Mash]

Crap! I am going to have to agree with you again ED

[gaza the instructor]

100% with you on glass.

[Phantom]

Not going to weigh in with "absolute bollocks", because it's not. But there's lots of mis-information floating around about plastics.

Gone are the days where plasticisers leach. Mostly they don't. The term "food grade" isn't so helpful, because water cooler bottles are "food grade", but only for water. The ones used here are generally polycarbonate. Polycarbonate used to be made with a plasticiser called bisphenol A. With water it's fine but it's also why the bottles have "do not refill with other liquids - only water", because it would leach.

These days those bottles are still polycarbonate, but made using BPA free polycarbonate.

So, with that sort of thing in mind, look to the materials used for molding brewing buckets, milk bottles and similar. The 2 that seem to be ok, at least for shorter periods of time, are polyethylene teraphthelate /P.E.T. and HDPE/high density polyethylene.

PET is like fizz/pop/soda type bottles, as well as "Better Bottles" (and clones thereof), designed for fermenting and as long as clearing. HDPE is brewing buckets etc, again for shorter periods but fine for ferments etc.

I hear you say "ah, but what about spirits and high strength stuff ?". Again, I personally have delivered NGS @ 95.6% ABV to places for bottling as vodka or rectifiying into gin. That's in IBC's (intermediate bulk containers), which are made of HDPE.

I wouldn't store anything in them for too long, as alcohol - especially high strength alcohol being such a good solvent, could easily start to degrade the plastics with time (not as quickly as other, oil based solvents, but nonetheless).

If you think on it, the internal bladders in wine boxes are plastic, but they do have a silver coating to prevent or reduce contact between the wine and the plastic.

So that suggests 2 ways. Ferment in PET/HDPE should be fine. Even using it for short term storage, transfers, etc should be fine. If you're gonna keep something long term, then glass or wood (cooperage quality oak) as they have a track record of being safe - albeit heavy and easily damaged.

As for those food grade barrels, I'd say it depends on what was in them originally. Many food grade type materials are reactive enough to mean that they will always have a smell or staining. It's entirely possible that could be extracted by the alcohol as it's produced/developed. The 3 screw topped brown coloured ones I have had olives in brine in them and have washed out nicely. If you want one of the blue ones, yes they can be made to take an airlock etc, but ideally you should view it and inspect it first to make sure that both the inner sides of the barrel and the lid don't have any unwanted contamination that might transfer to your hooch.........

[Mash]

Good post.

[Anavrin]

What about these bad boys, all new and quite reasonably priced I think

http://www.smithsofthedean.co.uk/drums- ... drums.html

[Easydrinker]

That was a crackingly informative post Phantom. Thanks for taking the time.
I once looked at the different internal spray linings of Polycarbonate bottles, used for different contents, and it fried my head.
Nice link from Anavrin. I remember when the only blue HDPE barrels available seemed to be ex- Bulk fill Mango Chutney!

Robert.

[Mash]

What about these bad boys, all new and quite reasonably priced I think

http://www.smithsofthedean.co.uk/drums- ... drums.html

These will be brilliant. Good handles. Much stonger "un shipping" is a different quality to "homebrew" grade.

Don't bother with airlocks - just pull the seal out of the black lid and don't use the ring.

I have a few varieties of these myself.

[Anavrin]

Found a place in Oldham selling them cheaper and cheaper postage, I would probably collect from there

http://www.bluestarpackaging.co.uk/60l- ... 2298-p.asp

[Mash]

Good find.

Could you use these indoors (without an airlock for little fingers??)

[Easydrinker]

[quote="Mash"]Good find.

Could you use these indoors (without an airlock for little fingers??)[/quote]


You have always to be aware of little fingers, when little fingers share your domicile.

Robert

[Anavrin]

Luckily for me the little fingers are either too young or not interested enough to take note of what I'm actually doing when I'm "Making Beer", that might change in a year or two as the eldest progresses through high school science, I can remember my distillation science class to this day!!

Maybe a little off topic but the thought just popped in my head after Robert's last comment