Pipe size advice

[Maker]

First post...!

Been meaning to try this for ages but for whatever reason it's always been a back burner project, finally started to make a still and it has dawned on me that as I have guessed at the dimensions I may be off, I would love some advise if possible.
The main part of the unit is a commercial container I picked up at a rubbish tip many years ago, the column is 50mm stainless tube that I intend to add a thermometer at the top, I will also add 2 cooling tubes from the condenser through the column, the pipe that joins the column to the condenser is my main concern as it's only 10mm I wonder if this is big enough as the boiler will have 5 gallons being heated by gas, there is a pressure blow off valve fitted but as I have not welded this to the column yet or welded the condenser to it either it's the right time to increase the size if needed, I'll add a picture of where I'm at.
Cheers!

[Easydrinker]

Hi, and welcome.
I have just spent a few minutes reading your post and looking at the posted pic.
Assuming that your concern is the pipe almost going out of shot midway down the right of pic, then I would not be concerned.
Gas can be controlled, and you have a blow off and thermometer planned.
If you have a stable cooling source for the condenser, then I do not for-see problems.

OF course, how you choose to run said still is a variable beyond my control.

And someone else with better experience may negate my opinion.
That is why this site is here.
Trying to keep everybody safe.
Shared knowledge counts for much.
None of us know it all, but together we probably do


Robert.

[Maker]

Thanks for the reply Robert.
I'll weld it all together now I have the 'nod'
Cooling will be a large tub that holds I guess 10 gallons or so of water although thinking about it I have quite a lot of mono ethylene glycol which is used as a coolant or thermal transfer fluid in industry, should be even better than water! (Ice blocks added to the tub as needed), is there an optimum temperature for the cooling liquid or just as common sense would suggest the colder the better as long as it still flows?

I'm going to start the wash tomorrow, simple sugar and turbo yeast to 14% in a few days, clear it and distill, what could go wrong....!

[Easydrinker]

Inflation, Brexit, don't ask what can go wrong, focus on the positives.

Robert.

[H12rpo]

10mm is a little on the small side imo, however if you’re using gas you’ll get it up to temp (way below 100degrees ) then turn down the heat and get the vapours off in a ‘controlled’ way, then gradually applying more heat little by little as you go into heads and hearts.
I wouldn’t run it full tilt even though you have a safety valve.
Get a needle valve on your coolant water supply to the condenser that way you can feed through just enough to knock down the vapour in the condenser. Also think about a separate controller valve of the water supply to pipes which you plan on installing through the column otherwise you may find it difficult to balance the degree of reflux that the arrangement applies

[Maker]

It sounds like I should not add cooling to the column just yet, just keep it simple.
I have got some copper mesh for the colunm and I can find some marbles in the kids toy box I'm sure, is it worth me using these without the cooling tubes?
I'm heading over to evilbay shortly to look again at water pumps, is there a favourite used by most or does it not matter, what flow rate is good to go for?

[Anavrin]

Hi Maker

I can see a few potential problems with this setup and a little more info is needed, mainly that you have no reflux condenser, the only way a packed column will work of if you have a reflux cooling coil, capable of completely condensing all the vapour back down the column.

From what you’ve already made, with the output at the top, you will need to build one in just below the output tube, like the T500, so by adjusting the water flow to the reflux coil, your controlling the output.

As for packing I would suggest cheap stainless steel pan scrubbers, from a cheap shop, they are very effective, far better than marbles or ceramic packing.

Also the column looks a lillte short, I would aim for 100cm in height.

This type of column is know as CM or Cooling Management, the stills output is controlled by adjusting the cooling in the reflux coil, just like the T500.

There are other option available, such as VM (Vapour Management) or LM (Liquid Management), both of these would use a cooling coil above the output and control the still by how much you open a valve.

It would be worth researching them both, in a nutshell

LM generally uses a BOKA design, the reflux coil is above the output and packing, there are slant plates inside the column that catch the falling liquid and allow it to be collected, the more you open your valve the more you collect, on the flip side, if you collect too fast the amount of reflux liquid returning down the column reduces, thus reducing the ABV at the output. One advantage of this design is you don’t need a big product condenser, your already collecting liquid, just need cooling a little.

LM is simpler and better in my opinion, it’s the same story with a packed column, an output tube and a reflux coil on top, you have a valve on your output tube, and as you open it, Vapour passes into the condenser, same story as with LM that if you take product too fast it will upset the balance of the column and reduce the ABV.

Both LM and VM should have holes in the top of the column, to allow excessive Vapour to escape, in theory no Vapour will pass the cooling coil but to be on the safe side you don’t want it to explode if you valves closed and your cooling fails!!!!

If you go down the CM route your column would be ideal for both stripping and spirit runs, as it’s sealed at the top, with the other types you would need a separate head for stripping runs.

Like I said, worth researching, there’s lots of information out there, too much to try and explain in a single post.

[Maker]

Anavrin- please don't think I haven't come back with a reply for any other reason than I'm struggling to ingest all the information, what you have written is enlightning and somewhat confusing so I will research what you have suggested before continuing, I thought I was ready to get going but now I'm not so sure.

For my first run is just a neutral so I'm not looking for perfection, just something safe to drink and play with flavours, I wonder if your advice is aimed more at a student further along the journey, I will report back as I learn more.

[Curmudgeon]

Maker, I would humbly refer you to http://homedistiller.org/forum/ as while many of us here are also over there, there is perhaps better for made still rather than bought stills (airstill and T500). Be warned that they're not gentle over there and posting before reading lots will get you bitten.

Edit, with regards safe to drink, it's very easy. Distill twice. No cuts needed first time. Second time, dump the first bit or use for bbq fuel, next few jars you can drink but they'll be heads, smell like nail varnish remover and give you a headache (hence name heads), next lot of jars will be awesome, last few jars taste and smell manky like wet dog/cardboard and may give you the shits (hence called tails). Nothing you make will make you go blind and almost all will be better than shop bought stuff in terms of hangover.

[Maker]

I'd rather stick with you guys here for now, to me friendly is worth it's weight in gold, I'm so new to this and you guys have been kind with my questions, basic as they may be...I'll get there!
I don't get why all forums seem to get to a point where it has all been discussed already but feel it's ok to shoot down someone for asking an old question, I get it that the info is there if you read deep enough you can find the answer but it's better in my opinion to have a chat and see what people have to say, things evolve and it keeps the forums alive.

I have a new picture, I have increased the size of the output pipe from 10mm to 16mm and added 2 reflux cooling tubes although I may not run them yet, thoughts please!

[Easydrinker]

Just to say that it seems you intend running re-circulated cooling water?
I don't recall anyone here doing so.
I keep meaning to give it a go using the large pond nearby.
Someone will probably now remind me that they have re-circ'ed water for years!

Robert.

[Maker]

Just to say that it seems you intend running re-circulated cooling water?
I don't recall anyone here doing so.
I keep meaning to give it a go using the large pond nearby.
Someone will probably now remind me that they have re-circ'ed water for years!

Robert.

I had presumed you were all re-circulating water as it seems a little wastefull not too, I had planned to re-circ until the temp got warm to the touch and then syphen off and refill my container at the same time. I am planning to add ziploc bags of frozen water at intervals to be determined, the bags can be used again rather than using ice cubes from Aldi.
I realise if you are using T500 it's geared up to use the mains tap but as mine is homemade I chose to re-circulate, does this sound over engineered, I'm not adverse to using the mains tap if thats the way to go!

[Mash]

Used and washed 4 pint milk bottles make the best freezer packs for that job.

[Easydrinker]

Re- circ'ing has to be the good way,
But no-one here does it.
I use electric cooling as that does have a green back-up.
Pouring drinkable water down the drain seems offensive to me, even if I pay for it, when people on this planet do not have access to quality drinking water.
Climbing off the soapbox...
We all have to live by our conscience.
And if you can come in at the start with re'circing, then do, and put some old timers to shame, I for one will be cheering you on.
It is fecking xmas, and little things you do at home can make a worldwide difference.
They may even save YOU money.
Win win.

Robert.

[Maker]

Mash=Smartarse, thats a clever idea and one I was planning on thinking of in the furture, most likely...

Easydrinker- I'm no eco-warrior but I just think if you have options then why not, the pump cost about 7 quid off fleabay and does 240L per hour and has ajustable flow, sounds good to me.

Made a stainless fitting for the top of the column tonight that accepts a digital temp sender, this will run through a Raspberry Pi to display the top of the column temp on a screen, once this is working the plan is to allow the Pi to adjust a regulator on the water outlet to control the temp in the column.

Going to find a gas ring tomorrow and try a wet run to check for leaks and other Welsh vegatables, all being well it will be ready to run, the ferment is done and has produced over what the packet said so I have 25L of 15% hooch to play with!