StillSmart

Following on from the idea of chipping a barrel I\'ve had a route round in my workshop for some oak. Didn\'t find any American White but loads of European. so I\'ve cut some sticks up 2mm x 4mm x 50mm. I gave them 15 mins in the oven at 250c. They came out blackened but not burnt although there was plenty of smoke. I\'ve put 25grms in 750ML

of Still Spirits Reserve Scotch and ditto in a bottle of Top Shelf Irish. I\'ve kept a bottle of each untreated as a bench mark. My thoughts are that if it works it has to be more economic to buy a couple of feet of 2" x 2" oak than £60 for a barrel and 2 feet wil produce a hell of a lot of jumbo match sticks.

Ah, well you could be right there, but I was thinking more along the lines that by finding a barrel that could be chopped up/matchsticked/sawdust/shavings whatever, gives a better provenance to the wood i.e. you know that it\'s definitely "cooperage quality" and definitely (in the case that I\'ve been thinking about) french white oak with the levels of tannins, vanilins etc that have been proven to be beneficial to spirits. Yes, there is some american white oak that will do the same or at least similar, or as I understand it, even better, hungarian white oak.
But if your experiment works then excellent. It would allow us to have some data that\'s a starting point for what would otherwise be very hit and miss!
It\'s got me thinking about whether it matters what form the "oak chips" etc take and more about the weight of wood that\'s used - or whether the stuff that\'s like sawdust really does magnify the surface contact area that\'s available to the spirit compared to your 2 x 4 x 50 mm pieces.
I understand that that\'s one of the reasons why they tend to use reasonably standardised barrels, because it allows for greater calculation when working out what\'s had enough wood exposure and what needs longer etc etc

24 hours on. The oak sticks have begun sinking so assume they are becoming saturated. there may be a very slight darkening of the whiskey/whisky

Tell you what Opus, you should go to the garden centre and have a look at any old whisky barrel halves they have for sale as garden planters.........
The 2 we\'ve got outside, the charring/burning of the inside has got to be at least 5mm thick/deep, and that\'s just the charcoal looking part.
I\'d guess that they were \"heavy\" toasted barrels originally, but it still amazes me just how thick the charring/burning layer is.
p.s. I can\'t really get a photo of my efforts at \"mixed fruit brandy\", as the 35 litre DJ is green glass, but it\'s got 3 or 4 packs of chips in it (it\'s got about 25 litres in it at the moment) and even after about 6 months, the spirit is still only a very delicate honey colour. If I remember, next weekend I\'ll get a sample out and post a photograph...

I have this nagging doubt about the purpose of charring the inside of barels. It could be argued that what this is producing is carbon. This would also tie in with some of the history of whiskey/rum production where the barrel ageing was more for removing unwanted flavours and smoothing out what was some times quite rough spirit. This would be simlar in effect to using a carbon filter. Any flavour addition I would suspect is more likely to come from the tannin, which is quite high in oak which is the reason it\'s often coloured by fuming with ammonia. These are just a few thoughts that might be worth kicking around.

As for my experiment, after three days there has been a noticeable darkening with the bottle of Scotch but not the Irish.

Well to be honest, I\'ve read a far amount about that and I\'m still not sure myself, whether it\'s just a case of the carbonised bit acting like activated carbon in the wash.
With most of the colour/flavour of the tannins, vanillins, etc coming from the \"toasted\" part of the oak.
Either way, it does seem that there is differing amounts of charring when a barrel has been \"medium\" toasted, rather than one that\'s been \"heavy\" toasted.
It may be that it\'s just one of those things that is a bit \"urban myth\" but it could also be that it\'s a genuine factor that affects flavour/colour.
Plus I don\'t know about fuming oak with ammonia, but traditionally, barrels were \"cleansed\" by burning sulphur candles in them. Sure ammonia might be used to darken oak, but I\'d guess you\'d also be able to taste it in the spirit.
don\'t forget, coopers may have adopted machine making techniques (for speed and to reduce expensive manpower), but I\'d bet that the rest of it is done in a reasonably traditional way. There\'d be too much to loose if they couldn\'t guarantee that their barrels didn\'t taint the spirit!

fuming oak with ammonia isn\'t for barrels it\'s a method of colouring timber in the furniture trade. I mentioned it to illustrate the amount of tannic acid present in oak.

fuming oak with ammonia isn\'t for barrels it\'s a method of colouring timber in the furniture trade. I mentioned it to illustrate the amount of tannic acid present in oak.

Oh, Ok. I\'ve only ever used stain to change wood colours.
The tannins are one of the primary colour/flavour elements, but not the only one. The vanillins are important as well (as I understand). As is the micro oxidisation that is afforded by the wood.
It\'s also other stuff like the contact area per volume etc. One of the reasons why industry uses the standard sizes of barrel. It gives them greater control over the amount of wood for a given volume of liquid.
I\'d guess that there\'s a set of standard "char depths" or at least a standard temperature for the burn, for a specific tiime so that "they" have more constants for the ageing process. The more variables that can be taken out of the process then the easier it is for industry to make consistent products.
Of course that doesn\'t mean that there aren\'t other variables that we might not have thought of.......

Richard from Wineworks has left the following comment on the main site :

Hi Guys,
I have just been reading your comments on the oak chips. We have three types that are available on our web site. These are Tennessee (which should be used for Jack Daniels style), Kentucky (for Jim Bean style) and Gobblers which is another popular one. These are oak chips which are soaked in alcohol and really add to the taste. There is no definate way they should be used and how long for, but I tend to add it to the bottle when I add the flavouring and leave it to soak for about 4 weeks. Its very much trial and error and they cost £3.49 per packet. They have a really fantastic smell to them and are well worth using. The only other way to get the affect is to store the drink in an oak barrel. The link below will take you to the product section on the web site.
http://www.wineworks.co.uk/department/oak_chips/
There are other oak products available (most of them are more like sawdust) but these are mainly used for wine making.
Let me know how you get on with them.
Richard Blackwell

Jimmy,

I\'ve just been surfing for Tennessee Whisky info and noticed that George Dickel Whiskey is filtered through Sugar Maple charcoal. They burn logs of it on fires in the open and then shovel up the charcoal. Trouble is I don\'t see to many fallen maples.

Three weeks with my oak and I\'m not keen on the result. It has just added a wood taste not oakey or anything specific just a timber/sawdust taste.

I\'ve strained it of the oak and will leave it for a few weeks to see if it improves.

In the mean time I,m trying the Tennessee Bourbon Chips from Wine Works.
Opus 27

How much chips are you using Opus ? Cos I got a bag of the \"Kentucky Bourbon\" chips (all the local HBS had) last weekend.
The packet says to use a half packet to 2 litres of spirit for 10 days, so I was gonna use the half pack but 2.25 litres of spirit already mixed up with the flavour and see how it gets on. Having a little taste as it goes on......

Hi Phantom

I\'m doing exactly the same as you half a pack to 2.25 litres.

Just done one of each of Classic Reserve Scotch and Classic Tennessee Bourbon.

These being my two favourites so far from the Still Spirits Range.
Opus

Well I\'ve just mixed 2.25 litres of 40% Tennessee Bourbon with 50g of \"kentucky\" chips - had to use those as the HBS didn\'t have the JD ones.
Either way, it should give me some idea of what the difference is (if any that I can notice)......
I\'m gonna leave it \"mashing\" for the recommended 10 days before I try it.

Ten days is up on my scotch with some tennessee bourbon chips. I\'m quite impressed with the improvement in taste. Had a few last night with just a spot of water and it was quite an acceptable middle of the road whisky, did\'nt need any help with mixers.

Just got a couple of days to wait to see the effect on the bourbon.
Opus 27

Ten days is up on my scotch with some tennessee bourbon chips. I\'m quite impressed with the improvement in taste. Had a few last night with just a spot of water and it was quite an acceptable middle of the road whisky, did\'nt need any help with mixers.

Just got a couple of days to wait to see the effect on the bourbon.

Excellent, it\'ll be interesting to hear how you get on with the Tennessee bourbon chips and the bourbon, because I\'m not really a scotch drinker, so it\'s mainly the "JD rip off" (the Still Spirits brand one). It\'s not bad (IMO) as is, but if there\'s any way to improve it and smooth it out some more, then that\'d be great.