About to upset the purists

[Still maturing]

I would like to add a good bit of sweetness to my whisky. I know bourbon gets its sweetness from the corn, but I like the taste of a good single malt. If I was to throw a spanner in the works and move into a hybrid malt/corn mash, would this give me a sweeter end product? Or would it change the structure too much?
A single malt with a touch of bourbon, without adding additional additives would be my goal >:D
Thanks

[Easydrinker]

A single malt attempt can take on a lot, even "sweetness" from the wood used for aging.
Your barley/corn idea has merit, let us know how it goes.
In my experience fermenting corn did not give a sweeter spirit, why should it?
Any sweetness of the wash does not alter the taste of Raw spirit.
It is what happens to the final spirit that gives the finished taste.
That means aging and wood, Bourbon or Whisky.
If yours is not sweet enough, try adding a little or a lot of Maple syrup.
It adds mouth feel and sweetness a go-go!

Robert

[Mash]

If you make your Whiskey from an all grain mash, save some of the mash (freeze it) to add it back later.

I have a massive mod I am going to do on my BM to make the job a whole lot easier then. Boom. Whiskey.

[Anavrin]

You should seriously consider making a UJSM, fresh off the Still it is a sweet whisky, I liked it so much I have kept some to drink unaged before putting the rest on oak.

Apparently over time it does loose its corn flavour so if unaged it needs drinking, it's essentially what Tim and Tickle are making in the moonshiners TV program, however with UJSM you recycle backset to make it a sour mash.

[Thunderbird]

A"single malt" is just that in my book; basically a whisky made from malted barley by a single distillery. That's it. Start messing with this and you don't have single malt anymore. Start adding corn and rye to the mash and you end up with Jack Daniel's, which I love, and yes, if I had to describe it compared to a single malt scotch (which I also love), I'd say there was a hint of sweetness as you say, BUT..........

If you check out the section about barrels on the Jack Daniel's website it explains that the charring of the white oak barrels releases sugars which are taken up by the whiskey. When the sugars have been used up the barrels are shipped to Scotland to make scotch. So fundamentally, it's the wood which imparts the sweetness and not the mash.

[Still maturing]

Thanks thunderbird, I think I need to be more patient with the first batch on oak as we speak. Thanks m now thinking I just want a o make something very palletable.
Anavrin, what is a UJSM? Sorry, told you all I was new. Sounds good though.
Mash, never entered my mind, I like the idea as much as I like experimenting, will try it.
Easy drinker, I will give the barley/corn mix a go simply because I've read there is more usable sugar available and it works for bourbon, but I totally take your point, and agree. I also have enough to try a batch with adding maple syrup, I take it it's trial and error, or a taster session to get it right >:D

[Anavrin]

Yes I agree about the barrels adding sweetness, the heat from the charing caramelises sugars in the wood, my point was that Corn Whiskey is sweet straight off the Still before being aged.

I found it quite pleasant and I'm not big on whisky's, the only two I have in my house are two small 250mm Kilner jars that contain samples of Easydrinkers Single Malt and his Glenmorange, I like to open them occasionally just to have a smell of the glenmorange one, I will one day share them with someone who will appreciate them.

Im going to have to pick Roberts brain about the recipe and find his old post from when it was made.

[Mash]

You might find this worth a read also..

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3796&p=30023&hilit=crystal+malt#p30023

[Easydrinker]

Yes I agree about the barrels adding sweetness, the heat from the charing caramelises sugars in the wood, my point was that Corn Whiskey is sweet straight off the Still before being aged.

I found it quite pleasant and I'm not big on whisky's, the only two I have in my house are two small 250mm Kilner jars that contain samples of Easydrinkers Single Malt and his Glenmorange, I like to open them occasionally just to have a smell of the glenmorange one, I will one day share them with someone who will appreciate them.

Im going to have to pick Roberts brain about the recipe and find his old post from when it was made.

I thank you, and may all your christmases be white!

Robert.

[Casper]

Our sweetest Irish whiskey, Jameson's, uses maize spirit which is refluxed to 95+% and blended with potstill malt. Tullamore Dew is another example.
I have refluxed both corn and barley strip low wines. I can't get near 96% with my rig, 91-93% does bring over more than enough taste. I am about to mash more corn and barley, but I will do them separately for several reasons.
The grains gel rest at entirely different temperatures for starch extraction.
Maize must be boiled if kibbled grits, or raised to 90°+ if flaked. Barley or wheat tends to have husks so goes bitter if heated above mashing temps.
Corn spirit seems to still very well in my reflux column whereas barley might benefit from repeated potstilling. I mean by that, work the strip by collecting a bunch of tails separately to add back in the next beer strip. I will be fermenting enough grain to be running a stovetop strip half a dozen times.

The corn spirit is sweeter, lacks the complexity of barley so use it in moderation in my blend.
Also, it needs aged separately. I recommend running it through activated charcoal. In fact, all spirits are dramatically improved by trickling thru a column of charcoal.
Charred oak does the same cleanup, just takes years. I find charred oak then adds the good stuff much quicker if I keep it warm for a week, a few sticks of charred oak per gallon @63% held about 65-70°C

[packapoo]

Great post there Casper (your first too, I see ), very informative. Left me with quite an insight there.

[Easydrinker]

Welcome Casper.
What a first post!
You obviously have some experience.
However, you are not ever going to convince me to carbon filter an all grain spirit before aging on Oak.

You said,

In fact, all spirits are dramatically improved by trickling thru a column of charcoal.

There are people that would rip your head off for making such a statement!

If it works for you then great: I know what works for me.

My own copy of the Scotch Malt distillers methods, using a feints receiver

If I wanted a neutral, I would save myself some effort.

Robert.

[Casper]

you are not ever going to convince me to carbon filter an all grain spirit before aging on Oak. There are people that would rip your head off for making such a statement![

/quote]

Please forgive me for not introducing myself. Is there a thread I should go to?

I have been reading forums and building columns for about a year and a half now, since we retired. I made some undrinkable spirits at first, and if this hobby means anything (given the cost) I have to make it better than bought stuff. I read that Bacardi and Jack Daniels use a 10ft carbon filter strapped to the still. I read that oak barrels are charred to increase what wood does to white dog. Takes out the bad and at the same time infuses the good. Magic! But it takes years. What is charred wood? What is charcoal? Yes it adds a burnt smokey flavour that I recognise in JD and Jameson whiskey. Not unlike the lowland scotch. So I tried it with a bag of activated charcoal given to me by a friend who supplies water treatment systems to hospitals and breweries, and got a really good vodka. The bad notes in my rum were removed leaving a sweeter rum. Ageing now takes a few months not years.
Cooking the white dog with charred oak chunks now takes a few weeks to get what took months.

My own copy of the Scotch Malt distillers methods, using a feints receiver
If I wanted a neutral, I would save myself some effort.

Please expand, I don't understand this

[Anavrin]

Hi Casper and Welcome

I assume you mean charcoal filtering before aging on oak, same as JD is charcoal filtered through charcoal from maple wood, Bacardi is a little different, it's aged on oak then carbon filtered to remove the colour, making it white again.

I think what Robert meant above was if your filtering to take something away it goes against the hole idea of collecting and using feints, which is done to add more flavour.

I don't think feints are used for Bourbon style Whisky, they recycle backset from the boiler into the next mash to make it a sour mash.

So what equipment do you have, you said you made some columns, pics are always welcome here :-)

[Curmudgeon]

Great posts from Casper.

If I wanted to sweeten whiskey and upset purists at the same time, I'd add a quarter a teaspoon of honey and a couple of drops of glycerine per litre.