Did you watch Countryfile last night??

[Icefever]

We did and there was a 4 min piece on Gin here's a link..Iplayer

It starts at 15min and all over by 19min....but I was amazed this guy's selling to top supermarkets and overseas.
When you are taken inside...he's working in his conservatory with a T500.
I know he's working on a rectifier's licence, but when you read all the hoops you have to jump through Here...makes one think...

[hampk]

I did see it and found it very interesting. I know the area he's foraging from as well - lovely part of the world.

Just going to read about a Rectifier's licence..!

Cheers

Hampk

[Icefever]

I wonder if he's on this forum??? or any other forum??.....

[Easydrinker]

It would be interesting to find out how difficult it would be to obtain a UK gin rectifying licence,as bespoke ginning seems to only rival Prosecco consumption among the posh drinking classes at this point in time in the fashionable alcohol consumption world.
Has anyone else noticed how easy it seems to be to buy high ABV Ethanol on that well known auction site?
£4'ish a litre,the last time that I looked.
I am not interested in buying,just curious that it seems to be available.
C'est la vie say the old folks...
It goes to show you never can tell!

Robert.

[Myles]

Operate in an excise warehouse or
Be VAT Registered and fill in form EX103 for starters.

For EX103 each room, vessel etc you intend to use must be identified and physically marked. This is just preliminary before you get inspected for suitability.

[Easydrinker]

Maybe not for me then, too many hoops to jump through!

Robert.

[Mash]

More hoops that a Hula factory in overtime!

[hampk]

Apparently you need to complete form L5 to get a licence, and EX103 as a private trader. L5 asks if you are vat registered or not - couldn't get through EX103 far enough without putting in an address (!) to find out but I can't see why you'd need to be VAT registered unless your turnover is going to be over the threshold for registration?

Cheers

Hampk

[Myles]

If your not VAT registered there is probably no chance. When I asked a few years ago I was told one of the preconditions would be a confirmed order book from future customers.

The confirmed order value needed meant you had to be registered.

[Easydrinker]

My understanding of UK VAT comes from a niece that did the job, and is now a Met.P.O.
At that time,maybe 7 or 8 years ago,to be "entitled" to register for VAT (deductions and additions), you needed to show intention to trade over £30,000 per year.
And people that pissed her off, by phone or letter, were shuffled to the bottom of the in tray.
At least one exception to this rule was made, anyone producing food, at least here in Scotland, could claim back VAT paid on anything shown to help in said production,and was not even questioned if said refund didn't.
A single box of 6 eggs was enough.
This I know to be true, at least then.
Maybe not relevant here, but it is starting to blow a hooley outside, and I can't sleep.

Robert.

[Mash]

Don't confuse optional registration and mandatory.

You can opt to register pretty much when you like. You MUST register when you reach the upper limit for avoiding registration.

Vat is a two way street - many farmers claim vat back but don't often pay it.

VAT is imo the tax that is furthest from straightforward when it comes to what does and doesn't attract it and the rates that apply.

[Phantom]

Rather weird that I missed that part of the programme.

I usually watch countryfile, and recall the bit about quinces, but not the bit about gin.

I know that VAT is applied to all booze, because though it's a food (normally zero rated) it's considered a "luxury" food (which attracts the usual 20% charge). Hence I'm guessing that when you take the various values involved, into consideration, I should think that VAT registration would pretty much be mandatory.

After all, when you look into it a little, it's obvious why you can make wine, beer, cider etc at home, it'd be pretty nigh impossible to make enough in a home setting for the gov to lose much in the way of excise duty. Whereas given the numbers (pause here while I go and look up the current levels)....... OK the WSTA are quoting £27.66 per 1% ABV per 100 litres (hectolitre), so by making 100 litres @ 40% ABV, you'd owe the exchequer £1106.40 per 100 litres and that's without the VAT on top.

Tesco cheapest seems to be £15.50 per litre so £1550 for 100 litres, so if produced at 37.5% ABV, that'd mean £1037.25 in excise duty alone, which at that level of pricing means £512.75 for the VAT, the spirit (likely in bulk), packaging, distribution, margin etc etc.

Obviously not economically viable at that sort of pricing.

Sure, it's "Artisan" gin, so will have some level of premium pricing, but how much above the cheap and nasty numbers above would it need to be before you actually could make a profit ?

I'm sure that most of us will have seen all sorts of prices out there, but it's "food for thought".........

{edit} just had a bit of a look, it seems that the cheapest artisan type gin out there is about the £20 a bottle (or about £28.50 per litre) the one I looked at in the end was a 40% ABV product so £2850 or so per 100 litres, leaving £1740 or so for the rest of the numbers that'd need to be worked out{/edit}

[Devon]

How easy is it to get a licence for distilling at home. I've been told you would end up needing special insurance and possibly a fire safety check. Let alone the fact that some people rent houses and I'd I read it properly you get a licence for that building and because you own it you have to get the landlord involved

[packapoo]

Not sure why'd you even bother with this....?
I mean you're either a home distiller flying under the radar or you're waving a flag highlighting your commercial operation

[Phantom]

How easy is it to get a licence for distilling at home. I've been told you would end up needing special insurance and possibly a fire safety check. Let alone the fact that some people rent houses and I'd I read it properly you get a licence for that building and because you own it you have to get the landlord involved

It's a no-no. There's no such thing as a "home" license here. The article might have made it look like a nice little country occupation with him just making "a little gin for sale", using a small "Mickey mouse" set up, but there's no such thing.

That will be a fully licensed set up with all the requisite approval. Likely to be a limited company (there's a few things that you can do for "work", but would be unlikely to be allowed as a sole trader - limited company status makes the paper trial doable and it's harder to disappear when they catch people fiddling etc, especially when it's connected to potentially significant amounts of unpaid taxes).

It's only relatively recent years, that they've allowed some licenses for stills that produces less than 700 HL per annum, and yes, there's a few thatve gained some notoriety........