T500 - do not overpack the column

by **MrCat** » Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:33 pm

A quick word of advice.
Do not overpack the column on the T500.
I tried running rashig rings and found I was getting a lot of surging where the temp suddenly climbs (over a couple of seconds) you get a lot of output and then the temp drops again and output falls off.
I had conditioner in the wash, two stainless scrubbers and the ceramic rings in the boiler.
After a couple of surges I switched the boiler off and replaced the rashig rings with the ceramic saddles supplied with T500.
The run settled down and ran smoothly.
Over the next week I checked the column and packed in more ceramic saddles to the extent that I only had a two or three saddles left in the bag (and there were still some rings left in the top of the column...
On a run today I again had surging problems despite conditioner and rings in the boiler.
After a couple of surges I again switched it off, took a handful of saddles out of the column and it is now running smoothly.
I could still blow through the column but clearly it took a build up of pressure in the boiler to push it\'s way through the column.

by **Andy** » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:07 am

Interesting, so it looks like Still Spirits have really done their homework with this one.

Did you try packing with scrubbers yet?

by **Legless** » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:27 am

I had a slightly different problem - I packed the column with the required copper bits and then the ceramic saddles (only had a few saddles left in the bag, but I found that the top temperature probe wouldn\'t go in all the way, so I wiggled some saddles out, to leave enough room for the probe - it all worked out ok...

by **MrCat** » Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:41 am

After the run today I took everything out of the column and have packed the top with the copper pieces supplied by s/s, then to the bottom of the coil with the ceramic saddles and then copper mesh.
I got the copper mesh from the states, it's wrapped into two sausages that I've pushed in from the bottom, then filled the last bottom section with a stainless scrubber.
I blew though the column before and after adding the copper & stainless and fingers crossed it's not packed too tightly.
Might get a chance to run it tomorrow (sun) - will report back

by **MrCat** » Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:38 pm

Tried the copper this morning. Again there was a lot of surging so I removed the copper and replaced it with the saddles.
Again there was more surging until I took some saddles out. the column / power seems to be quite sensitive to packing.
I guess if I used my power controller I could reduce the amount of vapour being produced and reduce the surging but I\'m getting 93% so I\'m inclined not to bother!!

by **Andy** » Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:55 pm

The moral of this story is \"Dont Stuff Around With Perfection\" LOL

Sorry MC, had to be said.

by **MrCat** » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:58 pm

There is a thread on homedistiller where someone has packed the column with copper so it can be done.
I just can\'t be bothered!!

by **lyonacre** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:08 pm

Greetings,
I am on my 8th or 9th wash through the T500 now and I am not sure if I am suffering from the symptoms described here.
One I reach operating temperature I fiddle with the needle valve to try and get a constant 55 but never succeed!
I seem to get a temperature variation of anything upto 8 degrees.
Having got it all sitting there happily at 55 the temperature will start to drop and over a minute or two go as low as 49/50. It will sit there for a while and then climb back to 55.
Exactly the same if I try to pitch at 60 so I end up running on a moving scale between 50 and 60.
I am using a basic sugar wash fermented out for about 4 weeks. I have rings in the boiler - but not putting in any conditioner - and the column is packed as per the assembly instructions and I had about a cup full of saddles left when I had finished.
Finished spirit is pretty sweet and come in at about 92/93 ABV.
Does this sound like an overpacked column?

by **MrCat** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:41 pm

The fluctuation in temp sounds more like a water pressure problem. In our house flushing the toilet results in a 3 degree increase in the column temp as the water pressure falls. Similar thing when the washing machine is running.
When the column was overpacked the water output would be sat about 30 degrees then suddenly the temp would rocket, I\'d get about 200ml of output, the output would stop, the water output temp would fall back to 30 degrees and ten mins later the same thing would happen again.

by **lyonacre** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:45 am

No, thats not my problem. I don\'t think its water pressure either. All alone in the house, nothing running anywhere apart from the still so it\'s a bit of a mystery.
Thanks anyway

by **MrCat** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:09 pm

Does the temp eventually settle if you leave it or does it keep bouncing around ?
Couple of thoughts
Is the column in a draft ? (insulate the column)

Is the water temp fluctutating (in other words does the temp of the water from the tap change)

Do you have an energy meter you can plug the T500 in to? Perhaps there is a problem with the element and the heat in the boiler is changing.
I don't know, I'm just throwing ideas out.

by **MrCat** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:58 pm

Think I may have found out what was happening.
I noticed a similar thing on the last run - the temp would fluctuate about 3 degrees over a period of 30 seconds or so. It would climb, then fall then climb again which made it difficult to judge the exact temp or output.
I noticed that the water coming out of the condenser had air bubbles in it so I checked that the pipes were good tight fit, gave the column a shake to make sure there were no air bubbles left. The air flow into the reflux column \'smoothed out\' and the temp stopped bouncing around and settled on one temperature.
Not sure if this was the same cause as yours but it sounds similar.

by **MrCat** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:12 pm

I was running a stripping run today so whilst that was running I decided to re-pack the column on the T500 to see if I could sort the surging problem. There is a guy on HD who\'d done it so I figured it wasn\'t impossible.
I removed the condenser and took the cap of the top of the column, packed the reflux coil with copper mesh, packed the section above it loosely with mesh and then packed the section beneath the coil with copper. Put it back together, blew through the column and it seemed to offer little resistance so I thought I was good to go.
Loaded the boiler with a gallon of heads& tails cut to 50% and put the power on. When it got up to temp I had the same surging but this time I had time to play with it so I hooked up the power controller to see if lowering the amount of vapour would help. Suffice to say it didn\'t.
I removed the power and let the column cool down. I removed the copper mesh and repacked the column with copper mesh above the reflux coil, then the copper chunks \'in the reflux coil, then rashig rings, then ceramic saddles to the bottom of the column.
Assembled it, power on and again it surged.
I removed the cap from the top of the column, removed half the copper above the coil so there was some air space above the packing and below the vapour take off and ran it like that.
This time it ran perfectly. I had to increase the water output temp to 60+ and the vapour reading settled at 76.6 and never went above that but the output was great.
Once the output had cooled I tested it and it was a good solid 94% - prior to this run was getting about 90/91% once the output had cooled.
I\'m now wondering if the cause of the surging was/is too much packing above the reflux coil.