Super Reflux still weirdness......

[Phantom]

I\'ve been messing around with different packing for the reflux column part of my SS super reflux.
It\'s on the go at the moment, and I\'ve used copper mesh in the column on this occasion - and put the \"ceramic saddles\" in the boiler as the wash just didn\'t seem as clear as it usually is.
It\'s currently showing 82 degree\'s C on the thermometer, but it\'s only been running for about 2 and a half hours and it\'s already chucked out 2 and a quarter litres of spirit - which seems really fast i.e. a lot faster than usual.
The spirit is coming out between 70 and 75%, normally it takes about 6 hours to run 4 litres @ 80 to 85% so obviously I\'m not getting quite as much refluxing as I usually do.
I\'ve been thinking about doing some mod\'s to the the still i.e. seeing if I can give it a \"proper\" column, because at the moment, it\'s reflux condenser is bolted directly to the top of the lid. I was thinking along the lines of seeing if I can fit it with a 1 meter column, it\'s just working out the fittings to see if I can do that easily. I don\'t want to screw up the lid un-necessarily.
I thought that maybe I could make it so that the 1 metre column contained some copper mesh and then just use the ceramic saddles in the condenser.....
Hum ??

[Phantom]

Well, it started a bit weird but got less so.
About every half litre or so (more frequently, later on) I was taking a sample to check the % ABV.
The first check I did after posting the above, showed that it was then coming out in the region of 82%, but the temp had dropped down to between 79 and 80 degrees C.
Now by reading and comparing types of still over at homedistiller, I can see that the SS super reflux is what seems to be known as a \"coolant control\" type still (they don\'t seem to think much of stills like that, but that\'s another issue).
I hadn\'t increased or decreased the water flow, so I can only presume that the temperature changes must have something to do with changes in water pressure.
Overall, I\'ve ended up with about 3 and a half litres of 84% spirit so not a bad yield (the only reason why I haven\'t run it to get the last of the alcohol out of it is because it was getting too late i.e. 0100 and I should have really started the run earlier).
It does seem weird that it must have been running for the best part of 3 hours before the still seems to have achieved some sort of refluxing equilibrium and settled down to it\'s \"own speed\". Very curious.

[bluecap]

Hi Phantom mind if I pick your super reflux brain
I\'m just getting to grips with my new reflux (second run today) the only thing i have changed is the thermometer, I have invested in a digital one with a high and low temperature warning so if it goes above 82c it warns me.
I think i am doing it right, I let the still tell me when its finished, when it starts to struggle at 82c, i.e next to nothing coming of, I call it quits, this afternoons efforts gave me about 3.5 litre @ 75% from a turbo 24.
After taking the good stuff off. Is there any point to upping the temperature to 92c and whatever comes of re-distilling at a later date or is it all cr*p thats left.

[Phantom]

Hi Phantom mind if I pick your super reflux brain
I\'m just getting to grips with my new reflux (second run today) the only thing i have changed is the thermometer, I have invested in a digital one with a high and low temperature warning so if it goes above 82c it warns me.
I think i am doing it right, I let the still tell me when its finished, when it starts to struggle at 82c, i.e next to nothing coming of, I call it quits, this afternoons efforts gave me about 3.5 litre @ 75% from a turbo 24.
After taking the good stuff off. Is there any point to upping the temperature to 92c and whatever comes of re-distilling at a later date or is it all cr*p thats left.

If you read up with "what the Pro\'s (apparently) do", they do all the normal stuff to get the "heart" of the run, but then keep running it right down - some continue to "take" as low as 1%. Then everything, except the heart, which is kept and the foreshots, which are thrown away, goes back into the still with the next batch.
In my case, it\'s all rather weird, because mine tends to sit happily at between about 79 and 82/83 chucking out spirit, it doesn\'t seem to matter how high I run the water pressure/speed through the condenser, and that doesn\'t matter whether it\'s (the condenser/reflux chamber) had the ceramic saddles or copper mesh in it.
I\'ve got a few ideas about how I might increase the efficiency of the still but it\'s all a bit "wait and see".
I can\'t see, or think of any reason why you shouldn\'t up the temp and run it to get the last of the "tails" out and put them in with the next batch..... after all, the "real crap" should be left in the boiler with the waste....

[umpa]

did not know what a super reflux still was until I read this. Now I gotta get me one. Seen one from wineworks, is that a good company ?

[bluecap]

Thanks for that Phantom, I’ll have a play about with it, there’s so much conflicting info about…I have read that if you take the packing out of the condenser it acts as a pretty good pot still... something else to play with.
Hi Umpa wineworks is where I got mine from and I have no complaints, free delivery and VERY helpful staff. And as an added bonus it’s surprisingly small when you consider it does 25 litres at a time. Just make sure you order anything else you need at the same time to take advantage of the free delivery.

[Phantom]

did not know what a super reflux still was until I read this. Now I gotta get me one. Seen one from wineworks, is that a good company ?

Don\'t know umpa, mine came from the local HBS, but Richard, the bloke that imports them has his website here. I haven\'t bought anything direct, though I did give him a bell to find out what the score was when I first had an over boil with my "smart still".

Thanks for that Phantom, I’ll have a play about with it, there’s so much conflicting info about…I have read that if you take the packing out of the condenser it acts as a pretty good pot still... something else to play with.

Having done a fair amount of reading, it seems that the "super reflux" is of the "coolant management" type of still. It does seem that it\'s not necessarily the best type when it comes to controlling the refluxing.
I\'ve been trying to compare compression fittings of standard sized plumbing stuff, to see if it\'s feasilble to make a column "extension" for it, because if you think about it, there\'s not a great distance between the boiler and the actual area where the refluxing occurs.
A 22mm fitting has a threaded area that\'s too large and I don\'t want to start drilling/cutting the lid, so I\'m gonna see if the F.I.L. has a 15mm fitting (I think he has) and if the threaded area is the right size, and the thread is the same as the reflux condenser section, then I\'ll be building and extension a bit like an expansion chamber for a 2 stroke motorbike i.e. a compression fitting, with a short length of 15mm pipe in the top, then a 22mm expander to contain some copper mesh with another expander back down to 15mm with compression joint that would fit into the base of the original condenser/refluxer.
One annoyance, is that I was looking for some "proper" rashig rings, instead of the ceramic saddles. I found a link to Gert Strands shop, but his stuff is shipped from the US, not Sweden. They have a 40$ minimum spend, which means that I\'d have to buy 2 kg\'s (which comes to about 44$). The snag being, that when shipping is factored in, they want a 75$ shipping charge! All I could think when the site produced the numbers was "bugger me sideways with the rough end of a pineapple"!
It just means that for the moment, I\'ll have to stick with either the saddles or the copper mesh.
This might sound a bit excessive, but it seems that it\'s one of the most common modifications to the SS super reflux (judging by searching at homedistiller).
As for the still itself, I\'d have probably gone for it straight away, if I\'d known about it before I bought a smart still. Yes you need to have a coolant supply, but apart from that minor inconvenience, it\'s very handy to be able to run a full 25 litre batch in about 6 hours or so, rather than the 2 to 2 and a half hours per 4 litres in the smart still. It doesn\'t really take up that much more room!

[bluecap]

It’s probably not what you are looking for but no harm in posting a link.
http://www.thebrewshopuk.com/index1.html

[bluecap]

Well the direct link didn’t work but have a look at smart rings.

[Phantom]

Well the direct link didn’t work but have a look at smart rings.

No, you\'re right bluecap, it didn\'t work, but it got me to their home page and at the bottom of the stills/accessories page there\'s a "1 litre bag of 6mm raschig ring", which "weighs just over a kilo", and at about the £13 mark will work out a hell of a lot cheaper than 22$US a kilo plus the astronomic shipping charge from the Gert Strand/US site.
So it looks like that\'s where they\'ll come from.
I just need to see if a 15mm compression fitting works now (too lazy to go round now, despite the early finish at work - tomorrow will do).
TVM for the link

[umpa]

Well I have bitten the bullet and bought one. I did not buy the a z filter as I did not have enough dosh. Can I use somthing else ? And will it work out of the box or do I need to by packing and stuff.
Cheers

[Phantom]

Well I have bitten the bullet and bought one. I did not buy the a z filter as I did not have enough dosh. Can I use something else ? And will it work out of the box or do I need to by packing and stuff.

It\'ll work fine out of the box umpa. The ceramic saddles do quite a good job, it\'s just that I\'m trying to improve it before I set to work to build something from one of the designs either at, or linked, from homedistiller.
The only thing I\'ve done to my super reflux is to take a very sharp knife to the rubber (or whatever it\'s made from) bung. This is to put a split in it down the length of the hole where the thermometer goes in, because you can moisten the bung/thermometer and it slides in the hole nice and tight, but when it comes to dismantling it to clean, it\'s a complete bastard to get the thermometer out without breaking it (I\'ve broken 2 so far).
A split down the side/length of the bung enables you to put the thermometer in easily and the cut/split closes nicely when you push the bung/thermometer into the reflux chamber. There\'s been no evidence of vapour leakage. Though I\'ve noticed that it might have been supplied with a "split bung" now anyway.
If, when I\'m running it, the wash/mash (or whatever I\'m distilling) is a little cloudy, I still have a hand full of broken glass that I put in the bottom and I also put a capful of the distillers conditioner in it.
So far I\'ve only had one batch of spirit thats come out cloudy. Plus because it\'s lid is clamped to the main chamber of the boiler it doesn\'t "burp" like the table top still can do sometimes.....
The saddles (or whatever you\'re using for the reflux chamber) are put in up to the level of the bottom of the tube that crosses into the condenser section, then the thermometer is put in so that it sits in line with the tube to the condenser.
It still amazes me how compact it is when assembled/running. Plus it\'s no difficulty to work out the suggested 1ltr/minute water flow through the condenser/reflux cooling band.
The only problem I get is getting nagged by "erindoors" because I\'ve cut 4 pieces of 2 by 1 to make a little lattice for it to sit on, on top of the washing machine so it doesn\'t scorch the paint on it, plus the WM is unplugged so I can use the socket for the heater. Hence the nagging, she can\'t use the WM when it\'s running :-D
p.s. Oh and if you want a copy of Gert Strands ebook about carbon filtration, including a nice little bit about making homebrew carbon filters, then PM me and if I can I\'ll send you a copy of it back (though I don\'t know if the software that jimmy runs this with can do that or not - you might have to send me an email - we\'ll see)

[Phantom]

Further to my comment about seeing if I can make a taller column to fit the super reflux (with standard fittings), I\'ve found out, this very morning, that 15mm compression fittings fit both the lid (it\'s a little slack when it\'s loose), but more importantly (IMO anyway) the same fitting fits the thread in the base of the condenser/reflux section.
So it\'s now just a case of sourcing the pipes and fittings. There should be no difficulty in getting the pipes and reducers (haven\'t decided what size the central part of the pipe section will be yet, as I think I\'ve located a place that does sizes bigger than 22mm locally), but I\'ll have to use a 15mm tank connector for the lid and a normally 15mm compression joint for the top part to connect it to the reflux/condenser.
I\'m hoping to be able to get stainless steel fittings for those. I\'ll probably be using copper mesh for the packing, that way I don\'t need to worry too much about how it\'s gonna stay in the extended refluxing area. Though if I used 22mm pipe for the central part of the extension column, I should be able to get some decent grade of insulation foam to wrap round it.
Once I\'ve got some of the bit\'s worked out a bit better I\'ll post some pictures for you too see.
Oh and the soldered parts/reducers/pipes, will be straight fittings, not \"soldered ring\"/yorkshire type fittings so I can use some sort of food grade (silver) solder to join them.

[bluecap]

Hi Umpa I’m sure you wont regret taking the plunge.
Before I got a Z filter I toyed with the idea of making my own and was looking at this as a design the carbon snake.
http://www.milehidistilling.com/Carbon_ ... /86390.htm
Forget ordering one as the postage is about 4 times the price of the snake but a quick e-mail to them I found out that the inside diameter of the pipe was 19mm so you would need a length of pipe I would say about 1.5 metres to do a 10 litre batch but it would have to be food grade and alcohol resistant the only place that could for sure confirm this to me was a large aquarium place, also a bucket with a tap connected (make sure a 19mm pipe will fit on it) and a cotton wool to stuff the end and maybe a jubilee clip to secure the pipe to the tap.

[umpa]

Hi,
I had a quick peek on home distiller looking for info on this SRS (super Reflux Still) and saw this :-

Is this the type of system the SRS uses ?
If the pics a problem I\'ll remove it.