StillSmart

Hi guys - a newbie here. I've searched the boards for info on whether anyone has gone down the route of actually applying to HMRC for a distillation licence for home production. The posts seem to match the conclusion that I'm slowly getting to: that there's not much point.

I called them to ask the question and just got a very formal 'you need to apply for a licence' response and zero advice or indication of any likelihood of being granted one. Reading the application form it's clearly aimed at commercial applications as you'd expect.

Anyone got any experience of trying to make an application or heard of anyone that has?

If your still is under 1800L (18 hectolitres) they can turn you down on just that point alone.
I doubt that they would grant a licence for a domestic residence.

Distilling for fuel is different, I'm assuming you are talking about making spirits.

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as a home license. They only issue commercial licensing because the taxation is huge (google for current UK excise duty rate and don't forget, there's VAT on top of that too).

Yes, they will grant small scale licenses, but only on a commercial basis AFAIK.....

You are more civilized there than here. I made an application several years ago for a commercial license. China does not produce rum, yet they have acres of sugar cane. It's about the only tropical island in the world to grow cane and not produce rum. All rum is imported. For years they have not been able to figure out where to slot me, so instead of owning a nice facitlity producing great rums, I am skulking around back allys.

So I console myself with the fact that I may not always own the biggest rum distillery in China but will always own the oldest.

I don't know how you see China,globally,living there,but in the Western World,I know that I and many that I know,see China as a super fast emerging Super-Power.
So much money to spend....
Before long possibly the biggest producer of Rum in the world.
Maybe you can claim heritage status for your product?
Maybe join the party and manoeuvre for the position of top distiller?

Robert.

Attn: Robert. China does not want foreigners here for any other reason than to take what they can off them.

Your comments on china being a superpower are accurat. The amount of money here is unbelievable. I have a friend who is the engineer on a huge private yacht. The owner is 35 and this yacht was a gift from his best friend. He turned around and bought the friend a Cessna Citation.

There are more fancy cars here than I have ever seen. Not that they can drive. Construction everywhere. Huge building going up and most of them empty. People will buy dozens because they dont trust banks.

Capt-Cudellez wrote:If your still is under 1800L (18 hectolitres) they can turn you down on just that point alone.
I doubt that they would grant a licence for a domestic residence.

Distilling for fuel is different, I'm assuming you are talking about making spirits.

Thanks Capt

I had heard about the 1800l rule - brought in in the early so that stills had to be too big to be mobile and illegal, I understand. But they seem to be relaxing it now - but still only for commercial micro-distilleries as far as I can tell.

Thanks for your input though. Confirms what I thought, I just wondered if I was missing something.

Phantom wrote:To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as a home license. They only issue commercial licensing because the taxation is huge (google for current UK excise duty rate and don't forget, there's VAT on top of that too).

Yes, they will grant small scale licenses, but only on a commercial basis AFAIK.....

Thanks Phantom - £7.41 this year I see! I just thought that they may have woken up to the idea that they could squeeze some money out of the 'amateurs' too - no insult meant

There have been a few artisan licences issued in the UK for 300 litre stills. Typically it takes about 2 years and one of the things they ask for is a confirmed order book for your product. They really don't want you to do it.

As for the "for own use" option that is a non-starter because it is deemed to be tax evasion by HMRC.

Myles wrote:There have been a few artisan licences issued in the UK for 300 litre stills. Typically it takes about 2 years and one of the things they ask for is a confirmed order book for your product. They really don't want you to do it.

As for the "for own use" option that is a non-starter because it is deemed to be tax evasion by HMRC.

Your "own use" point is as I understand it Myles, but your first point ? If you check out Cambridge Distillery, they are about as small scale as you can get. They're using laboratory glassware.....

But see if you can find the price for a bottle of "individually tailored gin" and think on how many bottles they must sell.......

I was looking the Cambridge site this morning by coincidence Phantom, Sacred Gin in North London are running a similar system - both use a lab type (glass) reduced pressure still as far as I can tell, as you note as regards Cambridge.

The difference is that they buy in their neutral spirit from bigger distilleries and then redistill that with their blend of botanicals - which is all you need to do to be able to call it 'dry' or 'London' gin as I understand it.

HMRC can grant a 'Spirits Rectifier's Licence' if all you're doing is redistilling or compounding and I suspect that these may be easier to obtain than a full 'Distiller's Licence' for small scale operations, but I've not really gone into it in any depth.

Ergo, keep your head below the parapet unless you're thinking of it commercially.......