Super Reflux still weirdness......

by **Phantom** » Tue May 12, 2009 1:34 am

That\'s not far off umpa. The pipe connections are slightly different from the drawing and of course, the SS super reflux the \"reflux\" cooling band area contains the \"ceramic saddles\", whereas your drawing suggests that the column/packing are below that.
In fact, the modification I\'m thinking about basically makes it a bit more like your drawing, by adding a column extension so that there\'s more area for the refluxing to occur and in theory (well in my head) that should enable the water band area to have a greater cooling influence on the packing in the actual still head.
I don\'t really know whether it will improve the efficiency of the SS SR still or not, but it\'s one of the mods that I\'ve read other do to them - plus it still enables me to use it as was originally designed i.e. I can just remove the extension and assemble it as normal...

by **umpa** » Tue May 12, 2009 2:45 am

Well it arrives tomorrow, so i\'ll have to have a play (provided it comes before I go to work) I\'m on happy afters

I have downloaded the instructions, and so far at a loss as to how you control it. From what I gather you control the temp via the water flow using a thermometer stuck in the top.
do you know what the wattage is ?
cheers

by **umpa** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:06 pm

Arrived just as I was going to work, it\'s in a big White box. Very light too, so I am guessing it\'s made of thin metal.

by **umpa** » Wed May 13, 2009 3:25 am

well I have built it up, and there are a few things I cant figure out.
1) I cant see where I would fit this ball bearing its talking about - infact I dont even have one !!
2) These ceramic saddles - I take it they go in the column, where the thermometer sticks in ?
3) I did what you did and split the black bung ! (good tip) cheers
4) It was covered in oil, have washed it and I\'m going to distill some water to clean it some more.
Heres a pic

by **umpa** » Wed May 13, 2009 9:26 pm

Ok first go !!
I got 3Ltr of 80% keeping the temp between 82-92oC. Now I have slowed the water down and I\'m getting 40% at 96oC I want to get as much as I can out of my 22L turbo 24 wash.
Turns out the marble sits on top of the ceramic rings and is just so you dont break the thermometer on them. It\'s very easy to use and whilst it is bigger than the SmartStill its not that big considering how much you can make in one go.
To get 3Ltr of 80% I would have to tripple distill a 22L Turbo24 in my smart still, this did it in one pass and smells a lot better, at one point I could not smell anythng but twards the end it did get that alcohol sweet smell altho much more faint.
As always - heres some pics
Forshots - not quite blue

Out comes the good stuff

Naturally was sumulated

~

by **Phantom** » Thu May 14, 2009 2:22 am

1) I cant see where I would fit this ball bearing its talking about - infact I dont even have one !!
2) These ceramic saddles - I take it they go in the column, where the thermometer sticks in ?
3) I did what you did and split the black bung ! (good tip) cheers

1, don\'t know, I don\'t recall any mention of a ball bearing..... How the hell it would stop the thermometer getting broken is a bit of a

??
2, yes, they go in the reflux chamber underneath the thermometer. I put enough saddles in so they\'re level with the bottom of the hole where the pipe goes across to the condenser section then the idea is that you have the bulb of the thermometer actually in line with the hole.....
3, I split the bung because I saw a picture of that somewhere and was getting pissed off not being able to get it out of the bung to clean etc (and I\'d already broken 2 thermometers trying...).
As for the actual "harvest", I bin the first 25 to 50mls, as that\'s where any foreshots are gonna be...... I then collect between 75 and 85 % watching the temp, and as soon as it strays over 85 degrees C I put another container under it so that anything that comes out I class as "tails" and that is saved to go into the next batch.
I usually get about 3.5 litres at about 80%, and between half and a litre of "tails" (I don\'t have a set strength for the tails, but after about 3 to 3.5 litres, you\'ll see quite a quick drop off of strength anyway (I get the tails in about an hour and a half or so - but it\'s your choice about checking the strength and deciding when you\'ve got enough - the pro\'s, well some of them, will collect right down to 1% ABV).
Once I\'ve managed to build my "column extension" I\'ll post some pic\'s etc.....

by **bluecap** » Thu May 14, 2009 6:58 am

Hi if its of any help after taking 50ml of heads off, I take of the good alcohol at between 78C and 82C when it starts to struggle to stay under 82C and next to nothing is coming of maybe just tiny drips I call it quits. I did get this info of someone I trust and Iâ€™m pretty sure they know what they are doing.
If you look at the info below as to what separates at different temperatures it is logical.
I havenâ€™t a clue about any ball bearing, I never got one or see anywhere I might need one.
Acetone 56.5C (134F)

Methanol (wood alcohol) 64C (147F)

Ethyl acetate 77.1C (171F)

Ethanol 78C (172F)

2-Propanol (rubbing alcohol) 82C (180F)

1-Propanol 97C (207F)

Water 100C (212F)

Butanol 116C (241F)

Amyl alcohol 137.8C (280F)

Furfural 161C (322F)

by **bluecap** » Thu May 14, 2009 7:13 am

Phantom could you keep us updated as to how you go on with the raschig rings, if they are any better I might invest yet more in my hobby.

by **umpa** » Thu May 14, 2009 12:58 pm

Hi Phantom,
What I meant to say was marble - I guess I got a little excited, if you used all the saddles then the thermometer hits them - that said if you stick a marble on top then you wont be able to use them all anyway.
I think the original design was the column only had a marble, the saddles seem to be an after thought.
I put the thermometer in so that 2CM stuck in side the bung as per instructions it did hit she saddles, but seemed to work ok.
I\'m glad to told me about the splitting the bung, will save me from breaking it.
My instructions said to run it at 92, but I find the control hard as the water tap is in another room, so I ran it at 82 and when it got to 92 I simply gave it more coolant.
It was a poor wash and had not even cleared, I simply could not wait any longer and had to have a go, so to get 3L @ 80% (and thatâ€™s loosing 300ml coz I kept knocking over the sample jar) from a 10% yeasty wash with hardly and smell is good.
I tried to get the tails by allowing the temp to come up but it seemed to be all or nothing, its like I got all the alcohol out in one go ?
What I might do next time is to set the temp at 78 ish and just leave it all day and night and see what I get, I was scared that it would boil all the wash and expose the heater, but I can see now that thatâ€™s never going to happen.

by **bluecap** » Sat May 16, 2009 5:09 am

Hi umpa
Donâ€™t just leave the still running it has to be controlled with tweaks on the water, I think I read two main rules 1: donâ€™t leave your still unattended and 2: donâ€™t distil p*ssed I have admit to being a wee bit tipsy for the last one.
If you look at the chart at what is boiled of at different temperatures anything after 82 is rubbing alcohol which is crap, I kept a 25-litre wash, which was 20% under or at 82 and got 10 litres at 40% when cut but it did run completely different to my next run which was 14%.
The 20% at first and for ages really needed just a tiny trickle of water to keep it at 80ish C, the water coming out of the outlet was hot and so was the spirit going in to the demijohn which I found a bit scary. It needed a trickle of water at first to a fast flow towards the end but needed tweaking all the way through, very easy to do but you do need to be there.
The second I did was 14% and from the start needed a fast flow of water to keep it at 80 ish C and everything was cold which shows the alcohol content of the wash makes a big difference as to how the still is run.
I am not saying this is the right way of doing things but itâ€™s just what I have sussed and my experiences. lol all two of them.

by **Phantom** » Sat May 16, 2009 12:22 pm

Having read the last few posts......
I think that we might be missing the point a bit.
Right, it\'s a \"given\" about the boiling point of ethanol, which is the bit that we want.
It also would appear that the SS super reflux is a \"coolant management\" type still - as far as I can work out from info on the net....
It\'s also apparent that coolant management stills are quite hard to get right, but I\'m presuming that it\'s less hit and miss because these \"off the shelf\" models are aimed at running turbo sugar wash. Which in itself, has a higher level of purity than other types of wash that may contain greater quantities of \"aromatics\" and fusels.
There\'s also the issue of coolant \"speed\". I don\'t know if they keep sending out different or updated instructions, but as I understand it, the calculation of the heater capacity and the 1 litre per minute (I think that\'s what it was anyway) should be ok to maintain the still at 78 to 80 degree\'s C
With that in mind, it\'s obvious, that running at 82 degree\'s C it will produce any 2-Propanol that might be in the wash. Yes, you will have already removed any of the lower elements by dumping the foreshots........
But as accuracy is required to get the purest amount of ethanol, then the aim should surely, be to run it as close to 78 degrees as is possible (I usually run mine a little warmer because any increased pressure would cause the \"tap connection\" to part from the garden hose that I supply the water from - and I\'ve already flooded the \"outhouse\" once). Yes, I should really pay greater attention to the temperature control.
Of course, once I get my hands on a Kg of the 6mm rings I\'ll post to let you know what the score is, but as I\'ve already tried copper mesh, I\'m thinking that it might not make a great deal of difference. I reckon that any improvement in quality/purity, will derive from extending the column, in which I\'m intending to use the copper mesh to improve the reflux ratio and then the rashig rings in the reflux section of the original still.
Now whether it\'s making any difference that the current (supplied) still head is made of mild steel, rather than copper (apart from the price of course) is anyones guess. Because copper has a greater heat transfer co-efficient than steel etc etc.....
In any case, you can work out exactly how much alcohol is showing in the wash (14% of 25 litres is 3.5 litres), if you were to attain 100% purity. 3.5 litres @ 80% (ish) means that there\'s still 0.7 litres of alcohol in the \"exhausted\" wash, so if you can get about 3.5 litres of 80% from a 25 litre batch, by running the still at 78 to 80 degrees C then it should be worth while running it for longer to obtain the tails to add to the next batch. It\'s up to you as to how long you continue and how low a % you want to run it down to, and consequently how hot you let it get too before you \"call it a day\".
It\'s relatively imprecise when working with this kind of kit, to in practice you might as well just run it as per the instructions.
Oh and yes, if you do put all the saddles in the reflux section you will end up with the thermometer touching the saddles, I keep mine so that the top of the level of saddles is below the crossover tube and then make it so that the thermometer bulb is in line with the hole of the crossover tube to get an accurate as possible temperature....

by **umpa** » Sat May 16, 2009 3:32 pm

Do we know what the wattage of this unit is ?

by **umpa** » Sun May 17, 2009 11:52 pm

I guess no one knows then

by **Phantom** » Mon May 18, 2009 2:43 am

I couldn\'t find any heater rating at Richards site......
though there might be something if you googled for the still model.....

by **bluecap** » Mon May 18, 2009 3:23 am

I presume 1380W going of this site that sells the still and spare parts.
http://www.greatexpectations.co.nz/afa. ... 10726&ID=4