StillSmart

I got myself some Barley malt and am going to attempt to make some All Grain Whiskey, from following a few recipes and my own ideas.

Corn 80%
Rye 12%
Barley 8%

Boil 20 Liters of Water, which was PH 6 out of interest, and heat to 75*C
Then slowly add 3 kg Flaked Maize. Whilst stirring constantly, and do so for the next 10 minutes, then stir every 10 minutes, however i had to pretty much stir constantly to stop it burning on the element, do this for a total of 60 minutes from when adding the corn.

Take a sample and drop some iodine on it and it should turn black/dark purple, this shows starch is present.

I then took the temperature down to 65*C and added 450 grams of Rye malt and 320 grams of Barley Malt whilst stirring constantly, then do so for the next 10 minutes, then every 10 minutes, unless like me had to do it every couple of minutes, whilst keeping temperature at 65*C.

Then i took another sample after about 45 minutes and used some iodine and the colour stayed light red brown colour which shows the starch has now been turned into sugar, put my hydrometer in and it showed about 1.040 and using a temperature calculation my hydrometer showed it should come to about 1.050 which if it ferments to under 1.000 i should get about 7%, i know i could now use sugar to boost abv but as its my first attempt would rather not.

I have now strained out the wort into a clean bucket ready for fermentation,i got 18 liters which means i can do 4x4 liter stripping runs and probably 1 spirit run, going to wait for the temperature to drop then take another hydrometer reading and pitch the yeast.

I do now have the grain that i strained out leftover, is this now for the bin, or put it in a bucket with some sugar and ferment that to ?

If I can offer a couple of observations that you might find useful next time.

Flaked Maize is already cooked and has been stone rolled during the cooking process to release the starches and then it is dried into the form you buy. Therefore you don't need to cook the maize to release the starch. You simply put the maize in boiling water and the starch will quickly dissolve and gelatinise in about 15 minutes.

Also, the iodine test isn't necessary to establish the presence of starch after soaking the flaked maize you can take that as a given.

The only thing I have against total all grain wash is the volume you have to do to get a decent or worthwhile volume of finished spirit to age.

Sounds like you're enjoying it though

Thanks for the tips, what would you do half and half sugar to boost abv ? Whats the end product like compared to all grain, and what should I do with the corn now bin or sugar and ferment ?

Never bin anything fermentable. Your plan to do four 4l batches sounds like a good plan.

Adding sugar is up to you but doing at least one all grain will either give you the bug for it or turn you off it. It can be messy to do but some believe it's worth the effort.

Most of my washes do not involve grain but I do full all grain washes from time to time. I have developed a good setup for doing it but I don't look forward to it.

All grain is a long term project for me and I'm not looking to drink the product anytime soon, it's all going for ageing.

AM

Edit: I don't claim to be a connoisseur so I don't have any hang up about using sugar but if I'm going to do grain I just do grain cause if there is a difference in the aged product I don't want to lose it.

Yes we'll will try it first then more than likely put it in demijohn and age with some wood for about a month. Ok will stick some sugar on it tomorrow, have covered with just enough water at the minute, will it be ok left like that, then tomorrow add more water and sugar and yeast. Yeh will see if its worth the effort, I think it's just cos the sugar wash is so easy, but least my 1st attempt was a success well as long as it ferments ha

@chaslam07
the grain bill you choose makes all the difference. If you have worked that mix out in accordance with aiming at the endproduct taste you desire, well done!

+1 Aidans comments re reuse....perhaps you may consider using dried or liquid malt extract instread of sugar? (it too helps boost ABV% of wash, with a much nicer/smoother endproduct IMHO, just be careful of the puking potential).

and....if Scarecrow see this thread, he is very well placed to talk about the trials and successes of AG whisky. (maybe try a PM?)

Good patience is its own reward here mate, it'll be worth your efforts.

Would like to say I did but to be honest I just made up the bill on the fact I wanted its to be sweet from the corn with a bit of spice from the rye, just wanted to get on and doit was eager, have just put 4 kg of sugar in with the grain I strained out my 1st all grain batch and will now see how the sugar wash tastes with the flavourings of the grain. My hydrometer reading was 1.090 but does having the grain in there alter its buoyancy ?

Now I wait as all 3 buckets are full, have got some stripping and and spirit run to do of a sugar wash this week of bucket 4 then all these should be rougly ready at the same time so will be busy, hopefully will all ferment out to 1.000

Will send him a PM to look at the thread to see if he has any tips or tricks, cheers

What yeast do people use for all grain, bakers ? Whiskey yeast ? Normal vodka star yeast ?

And I presume after fermentation you want to clear with finings before running through the still ?

And last question am I right in understanding you don't filter after distilled, you just make careful cuts ?

chaslam07,
I noticed from your first post that you didn't mention if you sparged the batch. If not, you left a lot of sugars behind. Normally I sparge until the wash is down to 1.010, then do one more sparge and freeze it for the next batch. If the recipe has corn in it, I ferment on the grain. This leaves viable yeast in the fermenter, ready for some sugar and another batch straight on top. This will maximize the value from your grains.

You won't get any sugar from the grains (other than what is left if you didn't sparge), but you will get some grain flavour. Adding some DME or LME with the sugar will give it a twist as far as flavour goes.

Add about 10% backset and you have a nice tipple.

If you haven't killed the yeast, you could probably do a few batches like this until you feel it has no more to offer.

scarecrow

Dme ? lme ? Sorry still quite new to this specially all grain, I probably didn't then but could you just re explains the sparge process and what it does, thanks

DME is dry malt extract.
LME is liquid malt extract.

Sparging is adding hot water (<80C) to the drained grain bed for the purpose of removing any remaining soluble sugars left in the grains. It just gets a bit more fermentables out of the grains so you get a higher yield when you distill.

If you ferment on the grain you don't have to sparge. Much easier to do, especially if using corn.

scarecrow

Ahh right, well maybe I didn't do it correct but this is what I did, I strained out liquid into new fermenter, then but the grain into a bucket, then boiled the kettle about 2 litres and poured this in the bucket, then mixed for 5 minutes then strained out the liquid again into the fermenter with my original liquid from the grain, I then got my bucket full of grain, added water and sugar and fermented that as well.

Orrighty then,
You have sparged the grains by adding the hot water, mixing and then straining. Good one.
You have poured boiling water on the grains. Not so good. Above 80C you run the risk of extracting (undesirable) tannins from the grains. They will give you an "off taste".

The liquid in the fermenter will be your all grain whiskey.
The ferment with the spent grains and sugar is your flavoured sugar wash. It should be quite nice, since it is the first ferment on the spent grains. Your flavour won't be as intense by about your 3rd or 4th gen, because you lose flavour every generation.
This is where sour mashing comes into its own. After you distill this sugar wash, keep some backset and add it to your next flavoured sugar wash. This way you will carry some of the previous flavour over to the new batch. Some people do this for 20 or 30 batches. Sour mashing ala UJSSM is very efficient and can be kept productive for years.

scarecrow

Well hopefully I'm might have dropped somewhere near 80 cos I didn't pour it on straight away, and so say my flavoured sugar was with the grain is 25 litres, I could distill 20litres then top up fermenter with more water and sugar, and pitch the yeast which would be my 2nd gen, and 1st sour mash ?

What yeast do people use for all grain, bakers ? Whiskey yeast ? Normal vodka star yeast ?

I use Fermentis Safspirit Malt dry whisky yeast..its very good imho....robust startup, but not overly so, constant/reliable ferment, clearish wash and, even by the time you are doing a striprun, you know its a keeper (mind you I dont do AG but grain + LME...as per Fine Scotch Whisky recipe elsewhere in the forum)

I would strongly advise against using turbo type yeast, principally because its not fit-for-purpose at all re AG.

Footnote: hey SC, wheres ya been?