StillSmart

Hi Guys

Recently my last couple of spirits runs have been a bit of a disappointment mainly because of the high amount of heads produced, on my last run I collected around 13 litres of product at 95%

I was hoping for maybe 15 litres of 40% neutral after cuts, but after collecting the first 3.5 litres and putting it to one side I collected the rest in 22 x jars with about 420ml in each, I only found 10 jars to be acceptable making 10 litres of 40% neutral.

I read all the time about people "compressing the heads" but so far I've had little luck, I've been leaving the column to stabilise under full reflux for 30mins, then taking off the first product slowly but I'm still not happy with the results, if anything I've got worse at it!!

So what do you guys do, if anything to try and compress heads?

I am a fan of the low temperature heads separation method as described by snuffy, and I operate a VM when I want neutral. (Well LM/VM but basically a VM)

I work out the maximum power I can put into the column before it floods - and then I never use more than 80% of that power level. That is my hearts setting.

I equalise the column at a pre-set power of between 15% and 30% of the power used during the middle of the hearts phase of the run. I aim at 15%.

I will stabilise the column at this power setting and then take off the heads drip by drip. Once I have taken off my estimated 10% of the alcohol I will stop my output.

I then re-stabilise the column at my hearts power level and take off a little bit more to make sure all the heads are gone and then increase my output rate.

I do NOT run out my tails on the packed column. For me there is no point as I don't want to stink up my product condenser.

@ Anavrin: You say the "last couple of runs". What have you done differently to cause a change? Compare running temps and time against a satisfactory run.

I still record data from every run. If there is an unexplained change such as you have just experienced, a review of the operation may offer an explanation.

Without knowing more details, that's about the best I can offer. The answer is probably right in front of you.

Preview: Re: Heads compression - how do you compress yours?
Currently running a pot still, the most part of this thread is unimportant to me, but Myles last line,I do NOT run out my tails on the packed column. For me there is no point as I don't want to stink up my product condenser.
caught my eye.

And this may now be being dragged off topic.

I do neutral sugar washes, strip and spirit run them, put them through the Essencia and end with a fairly neutral spirit, I am sure they could be better.
It is the condenser issue that interests me.
I will have stopped collecting tails on a neutral wash at 30%.
On a malted Barley I go to 5% or lower.
Using the same big silly air cooled condenser.

And on the odd occasion that I fall asleep before switching off, the condenser does me the service of firstly not catching fire, and secondly bunging out a whole lot of what can only be CuSO4 as it is bluey/green.

My question is, Can anyone tell me for sure, with verifiable links or sources, because I cannot find them, do Islay's distilleries use the same condensers for strip and spirit?
I suspect that they do, but cannot prove it.
And that really is a bugger!

Robert.

WHOA hold on!!! Might be a miss-understanding here.

On a POT still spirit run - and I include plated columns as pot stills in this context - for flavoured product, I use the same product condenser for heads, hearts and tails. I suspect everyone else also does exactly the same. You can also include detuned packed columns producing flavoured product, in the same category as above.

Just to be clear, I was referring to a spirit run, on a packed column, that is producing neutral. In my case this means a VM/LM hybrid.

I will already have done at least 1 pot still run as my boiler charge is invariably feints from previous runs. I very rarely ferment specifically for neutral, and I NEVER charge the boiler with fermented wash, when I am running the packed VM/LM column.

The boiler for the VM/LM is charged with feints at 45% for a final spirit run to produce neutral.

On THIS run I take the heads out through the LM side, and the neutral out through the VM side. On this run only the tails are so concentrated and skanky that I don't want them anywhere near my product condenser. I would never re-use them for anything else, so don't see any point in collecting them.

Hope that helps clarify things a bit.

Thanks, that does indeed help a little, it doesn't answer the question that I was asking, re the big boys, but leads me to ask another from curiosity, 45% seems high for spirit run feints to me.
I assume that you found this to be right for you from trials?

Robert.

Yes, I used to use 40% but found I could get away with 45%. But this is only for neutral to use as feedstock for flavoured product. I never actually drank anything of the VM.

If I wanted vodka to drink I would 3x pot still it, and leave a trace of flavour in it.

Myles wrote: I never actually drank anything of the VM.
If I wanted vodka to drink I would 3x pot still it, and leave a trace of flavour in it.

OK back the truck up sunny Jim... ....please elaborate on the first part Myles...as I'm about to start a VM build...(when all the shiney arrives from Mr Woo).
I don't want to build a column if it doesn't fit my needs....we both like our rum...but also enjoy a vodka.

Ok to elabourate. I have nothing against packed colunns. Some folks use them, succesfully, for everything. Whisky, rum, light spirits like grappa, vodka and true neutral.

It is just personal choice. I am essentially, a pot stiller. I make most of my drinking hooch on some form of pot still, and I am including the future plafed column as a pot still.

So in my context the VM I use is treated as a specialist tool and I only use it to make neutral. I don't drink neutral because I don't like it. For me it is just a base for gin and flavoured liqueurs.

I do like vodka, but it isn't neutral. It has a bit of flavour left in. In the future it will come off the plated still and a packed secton.

You can make perfectly good vodka on a VM. Just be advised though that if you set it up to make neutral it will fight you if you try to make something else.

You need to make it modular so you can remove a section of packing. De-tune it, to allow it to run at 90 to 94%, otherwise it will always reset to 95+ and strip all flavour out.

Myles wrote:
You need to make it modular so you can remove a section of packing. De-tune it, to allow it to run at 90 to 94%, otherwise it will always reset to 95+ and strip all flavour out.

Got ya....this new column will be modular...can't wait for the bits..should be here by the end of next week, fingers crossed.

Should do you nicely.
Example - just hypothetical.
3" column packed with 36" of stainless scrubbers. Its below optimum height but you want it for rum so are not fussed. So you build it, put the coolant flow on max, shut the VM valve, and start increasing power

You listen nervously as you take it up till it is just about to flood and note down the power level. 80% of that is the max you ever use.

You set your run up, stabilise and start taking hearts at 90%. By reducing your product rate you can squeeze that to 94%, but that is enough range for whisky, rum, grappa, vodka etc. Pick your product quality and it will sit there rock solid for the entire run. If you want you can reduce power, slow down to drips of 95% but it is impractical.

You want it cleaner? No problem, stick in another 24" of packing and it pisses out 95%. Ok not as fast as it would do if you could us 90" of packing - but who can?

Trouble is it isn't really adjustable. If you reduce product rate it still produces 95% just slower.
Oh sure you can increase power and might be able to drop the ABV a bit, but go too far and it will laugh at you as it sprays high proof all over your ceiling. Cllse to max power you go from chewing nails to OH SHIT, faster than you can blink.

I feel like I've neglected this thread after starting it, I've been away in my caravan soaking up the rain with little or no phone signal since before Easter.

Just been catching up on it now, I think I'm going to have to slow everything down and use a lot less power, also by getting carried away buying shiney stuff from StillDragon ive switched from VM to CM and I think that's where my main problem lies, ever since I changed from my VM, the quality of my Neutral has gone down :-(

I'm also going to use a smaller boiler charge, last time I used the strip from 5 x 25lt wash's, so with that much potential alcohol to collect, it does play on your mind that it's going to be a long run and you can't afford to spend too long trying to compress heads at a couple of drip per second when you know that at some point in the same day you would like to finish the job.

Next time I'm going back to my home made LM/VM setup, I just need to make a few modifications so I can still use the SD product condensor and parrot.

Just to quietly say that I am loving the way this thread is going, sorry if it is causing Anavrin grief.
My personal knowledge data base seems to have just jumped a little more.

Robert.

Sorry not been around much over this weekend..family get together

Myles wrote:Should do you nicely.
Example - just hypothetical.
3" column packed with 36" of stainless scrubbers. Its below optimum height but you want it for rum so are not fussed. So you build it, put the coolant flow on max, shut the VM valve, and start increasing power

Ok my shiney turned up Friday. Today is the day...the first cut is the deepest the song says..but I want to cut it to the correct size...in an other thread I ask about cutting this 1500 mm of 3" that I have...either into 3x500mm or 2x750mm. Myles would you then cut at 36"?? leaving what's left for another section?? .

You listen nervously as you take it up till it is just about to flood and note down the power level. 80% of that is the max you ever use.

As far as I know I've never had a flood, not with the 500 so what "sound" do I listen for ?

Cheers Myles

If you are using stainless scrubbers or lava in the main section, I would cut the column into 1/3 and 2/3 lengths.

When required add in the 1/3 section closest to the boiler, and I would be tempted to include some SPP in it because you use that section when you want neutral.

In the short section I would be inclined to put in a scrubber at the bottom, add in whatever SPP you have available, and top up with more scrubber to keep the SPP in place. Even a short section of SPP at the base of the column seems to have a significant impact.

As for the flooding - you might not have enough power to cause it, but you can hear it gurgling as the column gets overloaded with liquid.

Try it first with water only in the boiler on full power, just to see if you can overpower the column. Better to throw steam out of your reflux condenser as opposed to alcohol vapour.

With luck you will not be able to get there - which makes life a lot easier for you.