StillSmart

Hi all. I just bought 3 5 liter aging barrels with a med+ char. I plan on adding my neutral spirits made from a sugar wash. I want to get a bourbon whiskey taste and hope it's possible. What abv should I have my spirits at ? 80 proof or higher? If anyone has used a barrel and tips to help would be great. Should I add essence to my neutral to flavor or let barrel do all the work?
Thanks

To make real Bourbon you need your spirit on American White Oak and the starting AVB should be not more than 65%.

The barrell should be filled completely leaving no airspace. This is to ensure the spirit is forced into the wood during periods where the temp rises and recedes from the wood when it gets cooler. In this way the spirit extracts the flavours, Vanillans and natural sugars from the Oak. A secure stopper is needed to make sure the spirit stays in the barrel during expansion.

Problem you'll run into down the road is that you will need to dilute the spirit at different stages because the spirit extracts different things at different strengths and you'll need to cover the range to get a proper result.

I go through a cycle of reducing the ABV from 65% to 55% to 48% and finally 40% when bottling off the wood. This is what works for me and the time to change is dictated solely by taste and smell. The small amounts removed after each dilution are simply transferred to another container.

If you are using a genuine American White Oak barrel do not put anything in with your spirit. Essences are for making very poor copies so once you move on to Oak leave such artificial flavourings out altogether.

If your barrel is French or European Oak I'm afraid you won't be making Bourbon.

Good luck with it. BTW, You'll be looking at 9 months to a year before you'll get anything worth putting in a glass. It's a slow process that teaches patience - I should know I had none until I started into this hobby.

AM

If it was me, I'd maybe be tempted to soak some raisins or something in 5 litres for a week or two before going into the cask, perhaps a bit of vanilla, maple syrup maybe... just a couple of other things because if you're leaving it in the barrel for a year then you might as well do it slightly differently with each barrel and then work out which was best at the end, it's a long time to wait and find out it wasn't right - have to say though, this is completely theoretical as I haven't tried it with a barrel, others might have more experience.

A couple of weeks ago I cracked the tap on an essence flavoured 60% rum that I've had sat in a 5l french oak charred barrel for a year.

I filled the barrel to the brim and left it, rotated the barrel a few degrees once a month and after a year tried it out.

Simply put - too much oak but very smooth.

The plan when I get some spare glassware will be to half it, demijohn it and throw a few JD chips in to half to see if I can combat the oak with some bourbon. If that works then I'll do the other half.

The barrel is going to be re-used next for an un-essenced pot stilled rum. Going to add some bourbon flavour on glass for a couple of weeks with some JD chips and then chuck it in the barrel.

I know you are meant to keep the barrel full for the year (expansion etc) but without testing it you don't know when the right time to bottle it is so this time I'll be trying it out at the end of every month

MrCat wrote:I know you are meant to keep the barrel full for the year (expansion etc) but without testing it you don't know when the right time to bottle it is so this time I'll be trying it out at the end of every month

Just keep a kilner jar of spirit back in reserve to replace the tested portions, simples!

The spirit shouldn't be left on Oak for long periods at high strength, particularly in virgin barrels. It should be diluted at different stages of flavour development and to do this you have to test the contents and if that means opening it once a month - so what?

At strength exceeding 55% the ethanol is getting to the strongest and most astringent components in the oak and this should only be for a short time before a stage dilution.

All master distillers taste their spirits at regular intervals because the spirit quality is a variable dependent on numerous factors and it is only by testing and adjusting that we can hope to control the result of what we are doing.

Oaking and aging blind doesn't make sense to me. I don't use barrels but I do have spirits on Virgin American White Oak sealed in glass and I use a wine sampling needle through the cork to test the spirit every month and each time I dilute a batch I reserve the excess spirit created by the dilution for replacing the samples I draw off each month and I only draw off 10ml per month.

So far this method seems to be working - but it is tedious

AM

wow! thanks for all the great info! withe the 3 barrels im getting i want to start the solera system to age it. my big question is when do i fill the 2nd and 3rd barrels? btw its american white oak barrels. so that im not making a fool of myself, if i age neutral spirits made from a sugar wash on american white oak that is considered bourbon?

I think the Solera system of aging and maturation is a little ambitious when using such small barrels and I'm not sure this system will work with high strength alcohol.

There is a reason that Bourbon distilleries are only allowed to use barrels once. When a high ABV spirit is aged in an American White Oak barrel there's not much of anything left in the wood when the spirit is removed.

The Solera system is used in the aging of fortified wines and sherries rather than high ABV spirits because they don't strip the wood of everything and leave certain substances behind which help mature and even out the younger wine or sherry to maintain consistency.

If you have three barrels fill them all at the same time and follow the aging/dilution regimen I described and you'll end up with a reasonably good Bourbon type whisky.

To make proper Bourbon Whisky (there are no no e's in Bourbon ) you have to make the spirit from grain, mainly Corn (Maize) Malted Barley and even a little Rye. There are different recipes depending on which distillery you follow.

I considered using this type of barrel myself in the past but my research found that they have a limited life. After aging one batch for 9-12 months you can add another batch but it will take substantially longer to achieve anything like the result from the first batch. Wiser heads than mine suggested it could take more than 2 years for a second batch to achieve anything like the quality of the first batch in the same small barrel and even then there would be no guarantee.

Rather than putting my spirit IN American White Oak I put the American White Oak IN my spirit, in small pieces, and store my spirit in 2 & 3lt glass jars like this...



I'm currently sourcing Stainless Steel Cornie Kegs like this...



...these have a capacity of 19lt and I can put whatever amount of Oak I need in the spirit and when it's done I can bottle it and reuse the kegs over and over. Cool or what?

Anyway, good luck with the barrels whatever way you decide to use them.

AM

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MrCat wrote:A couple of weeks ago I cracked the tap on an essence flavoured 60% rum that I've had sat in a 5l french oak charred barrel for a year.

I filled the barrel to the brim and left it, rotated the barrel a few degrees once a month and after a year tried it out.

Simply put - too much oak but very smooth.

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Out of interest did it taste woody, or did it have a whiskey\bourbon thing going on with it? I've used too much wood before with rum (at least I think that was the problem), and it tasted more like a bourbon until you got the molasses after taste.

I'm interested in all things barrel shaped these days - as at the end of the month (when I get paid) I'll be parting with a hefty wad to have a 50l barrel coopered from a recently used Oloroso sherry cask - I could have bought 2 full sized used bourbon barrels for the same cash but at 190l each they are definitely not hobby scale.
From speaking to other hobbyist I've been led to believe that new wood can be a bit of a gamble, hence be going for a barrel from used wood. It's taken me 2 months to ferment and strip the low wines for the 2 spirit runs I'll use to fill it.
Been trying to find a stainless spigot to go with it - all been very expensive so far, if anyone has spotted something suitable let me know.

thanks all for great info. so im thinking 55% abv should be the answer for abv for these barrels?

dumb question. do i need to run my spirits through my ez filter first before i put them in the barrel?

I'd only filter before filling the barrels if you feel the spirit needs it. The charcoal inside the barrel does a good job if the char is done right.

AM

thanks AM. your advice their my newbiness has been very helpful!!!

i just received my new barrels and they are beautiful. my question is if it take me a month or so to make enough booze to fill them can i just store them dry since they are brand new or should i fill them with water until booze is ready?

Store them dry. If you put water in you are risking something growing in it..

A couple of days before you want to use them then fill them with water to get them ready.