StillSmart

Have just built a new 2" pot still with 700mm Liebig. All checks out fine - no leaks, Liebig knocks down all vapour at outlet temp of 18-20 degrees. I made a peat malt whisky wash and ran a strip OK. Ran he spirit run and was surprised/disappointed at the output. Here's what I got:
- at 60 deg turned water on and reduced heat to 450w to give 2 drops/sec output
- took off 200ml foreshots at 65%ABV
- connected parrot
- at 80 deg output was 65%ABV and definitely heads (temps taken at highest point just after 90 deg bend)
- took off 500ml heads
- at 83 deg still heads at 65%ABV
- at 85 deg hearts started at 64%ABV
- at 86 deg slight tails smell apparent even at this low temp and 2 drops/sec take-off
- at 87 deg output dropped to 57%ABV
- at 88 deg output dropped to53%ABV
- at 89 deg output dropped to 51% and was getting into definite tails
At this point I had collected 1.5 ltr of useable stuff. The rest will go into next run as feints.
My concern is that it seems rather low output for a 25 ltr wash and, using peated grain, an expensive exercise for around 2.5 ltr of Malt Whisky at 40% ABV. Any comments please? Thanks, SW

Hi,

First off well done, three bottle of single malt it is more than I have made - I have never been brave enough to try all grain.

One of the reasons I have never tried it is that everybody who has, seems to say that they get low returns for their effort. It is all about quality not quantity, what does yours taste like?

To be able to comment on the quantity you produced a little more information is needed.

Your wash, what was the start and finished gravity and how many litres, that will let us know how much alcohol there was before you started the stripping run.

When you had finished the stripping run how much did you harvest and what was the strength?

The unfortunate reality, with all grain distilling, is that you need to be making large washes because of the low ABV of the finished beer when fermentation is complete.

25lt of all grain beer at approx 6.5% has a total volume of just 1.65lt of pure alcohol. Given the average efficiency of a pot still your best outcome is likely to be no more than 80% of that volume and then you have to discard Fores, Heads and Tails

One of the reasons I don't do all grain is that I found it necessary to ferment and strip 8 X 25lt washes and store up the low wines until I had enough for a decent spirit run - requires an awful lot of patience

AM

Just as a comparison for you these are the figures from an old cognac still.

Strip run: 2500 litres of wash @ 8.5%, to yield 700 litres hearts @ 28%

Those are then blended for a spirit run

2500 litres @ 28%, to yield 700 litres (prime quality) @ 70%.

All the other heads / tails / 2nd quality hearts etc are collected and recycled in various proportions on subsequent spirit runs.

However proportion wise it is nearly 8928 litres of wash to 700 litres of cognac. On the same ratio 25 litres of wash yields 1.9 litres of product. Now obviously there are slight differences between cognac and whisky but you are probably doing OK.

Mate, firstly good for you running a peat whisky in a decent potstill (quality will ALWAYS win out over quantity IMHO )

Ok, I do 3 x 20l wash strips....and strip about 7-8 l from each....add enough water to get the spirit charge to around 30+l.....run that at no more than 2lph.....and I end up with around 7l of good stuff (ie 'hearts' diluted to @65% for oak soak.) BUT I use Liquid Malt Extract! and I sometimes put the heads thought my airstill for a cleanup run

So...all I can suggest is, perhaps consider adding LME
....or you really might wish to consider keeping your double distill AG routine going for long enough to get some backstock (ie strip as fast as you can down to any ABV% you want to wait for; then a slow, diluted spirit run)....soak for ages on oak etc
and remember you are likely to have a truly FINE result as opposed to a lot of grog.

Thanks for all the replies. Just to clarify exactlywhat I did, I took Harry Jackson's Glenmorangie clone recipe and followed it to the letter except that I used 6kg malt extract (dried) and 2kg of peated malt grain, instead of a full grain approach. I didn't take start and finish SG readings (probably too trusting) as the recipe has been acknowledged by others that it produces a qualiy clone. The wash took 14 days to stop "bubbling" and I gave it a further 4 days to clear naturally.There was no more yeast activity. In my spirit run I collected 1/3 of the strip run, as instructed, and put the rest into feints. I then took the "heads" and "feints" put them in the boiler and made up to 25ltr with distilled water - in subsequent runs I will have more feints and will add less water..
However, the recipe states that you should "divert the first runnings into feints jar until 75%ABV, and then collect until 65%ABV", so I expected a relatively small output. Sadly I never achieved this 75%ABV, only started at the lower levels given in my first post. Hence my concerns that running only one small batch may have distorted the output? Or did I possibly do something else wrong? Any ideas please?
Cheers, SW

I've got to ask what the volume of the original wash was?

Also, when you stripped the wash how much low wines did you take off and what was the ABV of the distillate coming out of the condenser when you turned off the boiler?

I appears, from what you posted, you made cuts during the stripping run then put the 'heads' and 'feints/tails' into your boiler with water and did a spirit run!! What happened to the distillate you collected between the heads and the feints/tails?

AM

SW,

I have had a look at this recipe and Harry's instructions to. I used the Pot Still Calculator to work out what sort of return I would get on my efforts.

From memory when I ran that calcs it became apparent that to achieve the cuts:

Fores upto 75 deg c.
Heads down to 75%
Hearts 75% to 65%
Tails there after to 98 deg c

the first spirit is required to give the abv capacity required in the wash.

As I say I haven't physically tried this yet due to a lack of raw materials. This I intend to change when I am back in the UK and able to do some shopping.

Try it again using Harry's ratio's without the requirement to add water just heads and tails and I think your outputs will rise. I have tried the 75% to 65% "narrow cut" with a cornflake "whiskey" through a Smartstill. From a 4 litre charge at approx. 30% abv I am getting 600 to 650 ml of product at 70% abv.

My technique is to remove 50ml Fores then keep checking the output down to 75%. Heads for another day. (This is normally 200 - 225ml, very close to AM / Mozr Guide) Collect Hearts to 65%, as I say 600 to 650ml, then chase the tails down to 20%, which gives another 700 - 800ml of product at about 35% with plenty of flavour.

Hope all this gumph helps and you try it again. Let us know how it goes.

Can I just check one thing.

On the first run you collect hearts and feints separately.

For the second run you charge the boiler with a mix of 60% by volume of the hearts from the first run, and 40% of the feints from the first run. Not just diluted feints.

Myles,

If you are asking me, I do strip runs first down to 1.5l. I then dilute this to 30% and do the spirit run as described.

If you read Harry's methodology then using the HD Pot Still Calculator you need to be diluting with Feints etc not water to get the wash abv up to achieve the temperatures, and %'s etc that Harry describes.

No it was actually for the OP. Just to get the terminology correct for ease of understanding.

you do two runs, a strip run and a spirit run.

STRIP RUN you make a hearts cut (called low wines) and a feints cut.

SPIRIT RUN you charge the boiler with a mix of low wines from the strip run and feints. (These feints have been combined from various runs and diluted to about 28%)

The cognac method id similar except they segregate the feints also. For their strip run they charge with fermented wash and some feints from previous STRIP RUNS. For their spirit run they charge with low wines and feints from previous SPIRIT RUNS.

This method of fortifying the boiler charge with a proportion of feints is fairly universal in some form or other.

Sound's right.

I'm going to get the raw materials when I come back and have a bash at a whisky.

I intend to use a very light peat, LME / DME follow Harry's Clone for the spirit cut's as a like a light whisky, but for the strip run I'm going to take it straight down to 1.5l on my airstill as I will have to fit it around work. If it doesn't work I will recycle.


Give me 6 weeks or so and I'll try to give feedback on what happens and what I achieved with an airstill.